F451

I did not know such a tool existed. Thanks for sharing this info! -Ed

Ps: My one usage of a TimeSert went great, much better product then Heli Coil IMO.

69gaugeman

My two cents on this. Studs in this application would be good for a couple of reasons not the least that the gasket will remain on the correct location during installation. Also you would not need to remember which length bolts went where. Win/win IMHO

The second one is, once you have done this job once and fixed the 'issues' What is the likelihood that the next time you would have the same problem?

I bought marine anti seize (no heavy metals in it) and drop the torque spec by 10%

James Bailey

filling the enlarged hole with JB weld is really just to allow you to center and drill a new hole, the objective should be to have a hole large enough to be seated entirely in aluminum to accept the time Sert. . Using the plastic for threads is less than ideal but is better than nothing.

GregBBRD

is the broken off piece completely gone or is there still a half moon piece of steel in the block?

How you fix it depends greatly on this detail.

linderpat

There may be a sliver of bolt sleeved onto the edge of the hole opposite of where it ovaled out. Should I drill this al the way out too?

GregBBRD

I'll call you. How to fix this stuff is a learned skill.

linderpat

Shout out to Greg - thank you Sir

karl ruiter

No to JBweld in this application. Try this experiment: Coat the threads of a bolt in JBweld, and let it cure. Try to pick it off with your fingers...it will be very difficult to take it off. Now soak it in hot water...you will find it comes off quite easily. Hot water softens JBweld.

I do know some folks who have used it in motor cooling applications, but having see this happen I would never trust it for this.

We used to use it in a product I designed to seal a metal bulkhead into a plastic manifold. It did quite well in qualification testing, but in production we had issues because even though we were careful with the mixing of the epoxy we got very inconsistent results in the strength of the bond. We would test each unit with a torque wrench and results were all over the map. So we abandoned it and replaced it with Gflex. At the time I though that we would have to scrap all the metal bulkheads that had JBweld on them, but someone discovered the hot water trick for getting it off. Saved us a bunch of $ on the bulkheads, but really shook what little confidence I had in JBweld.

linderpat

ok, time for an update. The hole is fixed, and many thanks to Greg Brown, Dr Bob, and the rest of you guys who gave good advice here.
Here is my thought process. I vacilated between using JB weld and making a stud in the hole, vs using something like a time sert. Both were a bit scary for me, because one (the JB Weld stud solution) involved potential failure after it was all put together, and the other (time sert type of fix) involved drilling an even bigger hole in a small space in the front of my engine block, without having confidence I could drill it straight and within tolerance to allow the screw to fit with all of the other screws once the water pump went back on.
The better fix is the time sert type fix. My problem was there was a bit of bolt left in the hole after I drilled out the broken bolt. This is what caused me to oval the hole. The drill pushed away from the harder bolt peice and cut into the softer aluminum. Because of this, the hole was too big to use a regular 6mm time sert. Greg Brown told me about the time sert's big brother - the Big Sert. Big Serts are made by the same company that makes time serts. It was critical to get that bolt peice out though, as Greg poiints out above.
With Greg's advice I got something that worked well to clean the bolt sliver out of the hole. Before investing the Big Sert kit, however, I carefully and accurately measured the widest part of the hole. I then called the tech help people at the big sert producer, and unfortunately, the big sert was not going to fit either. So I figured, I guess it is the JB Weld and stud, for better or worse. The Big Sert tech guy told me about Keen Serts. Made by a different company and used in the aircraft industry, they are sort of like big serts but "lock in" using little keys. So I got that kit, with the drill bit (8.8) and correct tap. I modified my old water pump so that I could use it as a drill guide. Because of the hole I needed to drill, I had to cut a window on top of the old water pump so that the drill chuck would allow me to drill all the way to the correct depth, and so I could see the blue tape used to show how deep to drill.
Rigged up the old water pump (I had to enlarge the water pump guide hole too), drilled my new hole to the correct depth, took off the pump, tapped the hole put in the keen sert using the special tool for that, and then put the new water pump on to test for correct tolerance between all of the bolts - it worked! I have a good, correct fix now, and am ready to finish this water pump job.
Here are a couple of pictures showing the Keen Sert mounted in the hole, but before pounding the "keys" in to anchor the insert.

linderpat

here is a picture of the keen sert and the tool to put them into the block - the tool is used like an anvil and used with a hammer to tap in the protruding spikes or "keys" so that they are flush:

linderpat

here are pictures of the mod I made to the old pump, so that I could use it as a guide and get the hole as perfectly centered and drilled as possible. The drilling is the most critical step of the repair. It has to be straight, and if too deep, you will ruin the place you are trying to fix, causing problems too big for my skills. This worked out very well. Note, I had to drill out my guide hole on the pump to a size large enough to accept the drill for the keen sert hole.

linderpat

and here is the test - new pump with several bolts and the repaired hole tolerance is correct - all the bolts fit into their respective holes. I was very worried about this. But it worked out.

Mrmerlin

glad you got your machine fixed properly

ammonman

Bravo. Excellent job of just stepping back and engaging "patience mode." This usually results in a well thought out plan and a superior fix. Now, make sure you put a bit of Loctite PST non-hardening thread sealant on those new stainless steel WP bolts when you install. This will seal the bolt threads and prevent coolant leaks but more importantly will prevent corrosion from leading to another snapped bolt the next time you need to change the WP.

Mike

Bertrand Daoust

Glad to see that you fixed this.
I knew you would.
Nice job and thanks for the tips.