? How to replace 16V Driver's side Camshaft?
05-08-2014, 06:20 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
? How to replace 16V Driver's side Camshaft?
Calling on the collective wisdom of those who have made this repair. I've searched but need some more input.
Can you please give the steps and any pointers that might help?
Possible to accomplish on a midyear LJet with engine installed?
Can you please give the steps and any pointers that might help?
Possible to accomplish on a midyear LJet with engine installed?
05-08-2014, 11:32 AM
#3
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Engine in the car? Yes
You must remove the cam box.
The upper bolts are not that bad to get at (inside the cam box, under those large allen plugs). The lower ones can be a royal pain in the ***.
For the lower bolts, I found it was much easier to have a ratcheting box wrench, slide the allen through it so you don't have to keep removing the allen wrench for each 1/4 - 1/2 turn. I had to go from underneath too.
Installation can be fun since the lifters want to fall out and if you loose one of the upper bolts when trying to place it, you probably have to yank the whole unit to fish it out.
I "pre-installed" all the upper bolts, then the gasket and used some very thin wire twisted once around the base of the bolt sticking out to hole them all in place. Then I started each bolt, a turn or two and then carefully removed the wire. If you don't do this method, the old "grease in the bolt head" works too. A magnetized allen would be nice too here.
Coating the lifters in some sticky assembly lube can keep them in place.
I would have more than one gasket on hand in case you wreck one doing the install.
As for the torque specs..... I could not get a torque wrench on the lower bolts. So I just randomly went around a few turns each until they were "snug". That was 10+ years ago and no leaks.
I wish there was a silicone gasket for this location.
The most difficult part of doing a head-gasket job is removing the cam box, so maybe it's time to just do those too.......
You must remove the cam box.
The upper bolts are not that bad to get at (inside the cam box, under those large allen plugs). The lower ones can be a royal pain in the ***.
For the lower bolts, I found it was much easier to have a ratcheting box wrench, slide the allen through it so you don't have to keep removing the allen wrench for each 1/4 - 1/2 turn. I had to go from underneath too.
Installation can be fun since the lifters want to fall out and if you loose one of the upper bolts when trying to place it, you probably have to yank the whole unit to fish it out.
I "pre-installed" all the upper bolts, then the gasket and used some very thin wire twisted once around the base of the bolt sticking out to hole them all in place. Then I started each bolt, a turn or two and then carefully removed the wire. If you don't do this method, the old "grease in the bolt head" works too. A magnetized allen would be nice too here.
Coating the lifters in some sticky assembly lube can keep them in place.
I would have more than one gasket on hand in case you wreck one doing the install.
As for the torque specs..... I could not get a torque wrench on the lower bolts. So I just randomly went around a few turns each until they were "snug". That was 10+ years ago and no leaks.
I wish there was a silicone gasket for this location.
The most difficult part of doing a head-gasket job is removing the cam box, so maybe it's time to just do those too.......
05-08-2014, 12:04 PM
#4
Greg brown has silicone cam cover gaskets if I remember.
Landseer was it you that was emailing me about my driver side 81 cam with the little chip on the front edge? Wish it worked out. I also have the lifters/ cam covers off too in case you need anything.
Landseer was it you that was emailing me about my driver side 81 cam with the little chip on the front edge? Wish it worked out. I also have the lifters/ cam covers off too in case you need anything.
05-08-2014, 08:24 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
The upper bolts are not that bad to get at (inside the cam box, under those Engine in the car? Yes
You must remove the cam box.
large allen plugs). The lower ones can be a royal pain in the ***.
For the lower bolts, I found it was much easier to have a ratcheting box wrench, slide the allen through it so you don't have to keep removing the allen wrench for each 1/4 - 1/2 turn. I had to go from underneath too.
Installation can be fun since the lifters want to fall out and if you loose one of the upper bolts when trying to place it, you probably have to yank the whole unit to fish it out.
I "pre-installed" all the upper bolts, then the gasket and used some very thin wire twisted once around the base of the bolt sticking out to hole them all in place. Then I started each bolt, a turn or two and then carefully removed the wire. If you don't do this method, the old "grease in the bolt head" works too. A magnetized allen would be nice too here.
Coating the lifters in some sticky assembly lube can keep them in place.
I would have more than one gasket on hand in case you wreck one doing the install.
As for the torque specs..... I could not get a torque wrench on the lower bolts. So I just randomly went around a few turns each until they were "snug". That was 10+ years ago and no leaks.
I wish there was a silicone gasket for this location.
The most difficult part of doing a head-gasket job is removing the cam box, so maybe it's time to just do those too.......
You must remove the cam box.
large allen plugs). The lower ones can be a royal pain in the ***.
For the lower bolts, I found it was much easier to have a ratcheting box wrench, slide the allen through it so you don't have to keep removing the allen wrench for each 1/4 - 1/2 turn. I had to go from underneath too.
Installation can be fun since the lifters want to fall out and if you loose one of the upper bolts when trying to place it, you probably have to yank the whole unit to fish it out.
I "pre-installed" all the upper bolts, then the gasket and used some very thin wire twisted once around the base of the bolt sticking out to hole them all in place. Then I started each bolt, a turn or two and then carefully removed the wire. If you don't do this method, the old "grease in the bolt head" works too. A magnetized allen would be nice too here.
Coating the lifters in some sticky assembly lube can keep them in place.
I would have more than one gasket on hand in case you wreck one doing the install.
As for the torque specs..... I could not get a torque wrench on the lower bolts. So I just randomly went around a few turns each until they were "snug". That was 10+ years ago and no leaks.
I wish there was a silicone gasket for this location.
The most difficult part of doing a head-gasket job is removing the cam box, so maybe it's time to just do those too.......
05-08-2014, 09:20 PM
#6
Former Sponsor
I, indeed, have gaskets that we sourced years ago which do not have the slippery moly coat on each end. I've sold and used literally hundreds of them. Much, much better than the factory gaskets, which are almost guaranteed to split and leak oil.
Getting the cam carrier on and off sucks. It's not difficult work, just tough to gain access to the bolts. And if one rounds out....it's real trouble.
Patience is your friend.
Getting the cam carrier on and off sucks. It's not difficult work, just tough to gain access to the bolts. And if one rounds out....it's real trouble.
Patience is your friend.
Trending Topics
05-08-2014, 10:07 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Pulling the cam towers in the car was the worst job I ever did on my car. If you have an thoughts to rebuilding the engine, head gaskets, main seals or just cleaning it, then pull the engine.
I've never had a problem with the stock tower gaskets. I just clean the surfaces well and torque the bolts per the manual. 10 or so times. It's the head gaskets, rings and bearings that fail me.
I've never had a problem with the stock tower gaskets. I just clean the surfaces well and torque the bolts per the manual. 10 or so times. It's the head gaskets, rings and bearings that fail me.
05-08-2014, 11:06 PM
#9
Yes, be patient. I have installed many of them and recently started to use Gregs gaskets. Putting one on a 924S I wasn't exactly patient and ended up gouging one at the oil pressure port on the back side. It lasted a few weeks before it split and had to re do it. Be patient with them and I do recommend Gregs Gaskets.
05-09-2014, 03:18 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Look closely for correct orientation, there is a single oil port hole in the gasket that is easy to miss. If you install the gasket in the wrong orientation, you'll block the oil port with the gasket.
05-09-2014, 12:37 PM
#11
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Magnolia TX, just north of Houston, Red 1984 S
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
As Greg suggests rounding out one of the socket heads is not good. Worse yet is breaking off an Allen wrench in the socket...ask me how I know of both.......the good news is the socket head bolt is very soft steel, so it can be drilled off pretty readily. With a fragment of very hard Allen wrench in the socket all bets are off....can't drill out the Allan wrench fragment even with carbide. There is an easy solution, but it may well require pulling the engine to get a good angle on everything...after removing the heads from both bolts the remaining stub came out with finger pressure so the bolts were originally torqued very tight I think. I have a couple of tools I made for this operation, I will see if I can find them and will post photos if there is interest in seeing how shade tree mechanics bail themselves out of serious trouble...
05-09-2014, 01:22 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
why do you need to replace one cam? ive done this before, and have to say , the bolt turning was not that bad. (depending on the side of the car you were working on. driver side was worse as I remember..... BUT, cleaning the old gasket off the head surface was a real pain. took nearly 8 hours with all the proper tools. problem, you cant get the proper tools in place to do anything, so you end up using gasket remover chemicals and a puddy knife to get the area clean. if it all comes off in one piece, on an old car, you are extremely lucky!
05-09-2014, 02:54 PM
#13
Former Sponsor
As Greg suggests rounding out one of the socket heads is not good. Worse yet is breaking off an Allen wrench in the socket...ask me how I know of both.......the good news is the socket head bolt is very soft steel, so it can be drilled off pretty readily. With a fragment of very hard Allen wrench in the socket all bets are off....can't drill out the Allan wrench fragment even with carbide. There is an easy solution, but it may well require pulling the engine to get a good angle on everything...after removing the heads from both bolts the remaining stub came out with finger pressure so the bolts were originally torqued very tight I think. I have a couple of tools I made for this operation, I will see if I can find them and will post photos if there is interest in seeing how shade tree mechanics bail themselves out of serious trouble...
There's a trick to this problem. Don't allow it to occur.
The problem with Allen socket bolts is that the head surface tension frequently is higher than either the Allen tool or the bolt can deal with. The actual threads are almost never an issue.
Two tricks....
Hit each and every single one of these bolts with a 3/8" round brass punch and a hammer. Hit them hard. This impact will loosen the surface tension of the head and make the bolts "jump out". If you go to turn them and they seem tight...hit them again...harder.
Don't use inferior Allen tools. Repeat. Do not use inferior Allen tools. Even the "higher end" Snap-on tools are too soft and have a tendency to round down the corners. I have Snap-on allen sockets, which I use for assembly purposes....but I bet I turn them in and get "fresh ones" 2-3 times a year. Buy Hazet Allen socket tools. I don't know what metal they use, or what hardness they use, but I've got ones that I've used for 20 years and they are still perfect.
05-09-2014, 05:14 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I, indeed, have gaskets that we sourced years ago which do not have the slippery moly coat on each end. I've sold and used literally hundreds of them. Much, much better than the factory gaskets, which are almost guaranteed to split and leak oil.
Getting the cam carrier on and off sucks. It's not difficult work, just tough to gain access to the bolts. And if one rounds out....it's real trouble.
Patience is your friend.
Getting the cam carrier on and off sucks. It's not difficult work, just tough to gain access to the bolts. And if one rounds out....it's real trouble.
Patience is your friend.
05-09-2014, 08:00 PM
#15
Former Sponsor