GregBBRD

That is really interesting. I have not seen that. Thanks for that tidbit!

linderpat

moral of the story is buy an S197 Mustang ('05 onward) - great looking car, blast to drive on the track, especially with the IRS, fast and surprisingly nimble, a fraction of the cost of a p-car, and generally won't blow up on the odd club weekend DE.

IcemanG17

Okay I am not an engineer nor engine builder...I am merely a 928 enthusiast who got addicted to driving on track, then racing.... I have learned many lessons over the years and none were cheap or painless....ALL were costly to both my wallet and marriage....

There are others like me..... that suffer the same consequences.... While I tried very hard to come up with a cost effective answer to driving 928's on track the one lesson I learned is THIS....

ON street tires and while learning, you will be fine.... However once your driving ability gets to the advanced level (when you think about racing)....you will have problems....lots of them....no way around it...while I consider Mark Kibort my friend, nobody has been able to duplicate his results...simple scientific theory.... MANY (myself) have tried....and we all kill engines...many times over....Sean and I have literally killed 7 between us...in 5 years...and we drive on track more than anyone....don't let "I have X seasons fool you"...its all about hours on track and the pace.... All out race pace in a powerful 928 on slicks driven by Mark Anderson or similar....hours at best survival time.....how many times does this need to be proven...over and over again... Notice I quote hours on track.....not seasons.... I expect my racer to last many hours on track....I consider a "season" at least 25 hours on track at race pace....and this is for sprint racing.... or all out pace....

Don't think we are alone.....many of my corvette friends blow engines at least as often as we do...most with LS3.....slightly less with LS6.....I would say LS2 is neutral...

This is a learning experience....a painful one at that....and yes I have thought about jumping ship...surely my wife would love it.....but I can't do it....in fact I am even more invested than ever for the upcoming season... I know I am not alone in my insanity.....

RKD in OKC

Overheard track owner instructor at our local track, Hallett, comment after watching a car blow up, "I don't understand why these guys do that to their cars when they can buy and race a purpose built open wheeled car for much less."

linderpat

this is a very educational thread for me. I have not tracked any of my sharks, and I know now that I never will (not that I would approach the skill necessary to kill an engine).
Is this an issue with the M96 engines in the Boxster?

EMan 928

Greg, what solution do you offer for the clutch line?

hacker-pschorr

....again, street tires are no guarntee and a false sense of security.

Years ago, a local friend took his 87 S4 to Road America for a track day. His only modifications were 17" GTS style wheels along with gauges for oil and trans temps.

With Bridgestone RE730 tires (235 front, 255 rear) he was seeing oil temps in excess of 260+ degrees and the oil pressure gauge dropping a bit on corners like the carousel. At the time this car had less than 20k miles on it.
Before going back on the track he fitting coolers to both ends along with an accusump and more gauges.

He may have been using Mobil 1

Looks like that might be the case:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...r-boxster.html

123quattro

You can pick up decent C5 Vettes for around 10k as well.

Courtshark

IMO, Brian has it right when he says the real difference arises when you jump from DEs to actual racing. Maybe that's just what I'm telling myself to make myself feel better... but guys like Gary Knox and Curt Hinchcliffe have been doing DEs for years in their 928s and have not blown up their engines... yet. There is something to be said for driver style (and ability) about how much pounding you require the car to take. I've said it before: I'm not out there in DEs to win races, but to enjoy some speed while improving my driving ability. My goal is to be smooth, and not beat the crap out of my car. The 928 is a very capable beast for this purpose, provided you understand that you cannot expect to be bouncing off the rev limiter in a long sweeping turn and not blow up.

Kibort, Brian, etc... these guys are actually racing, which is far different conditions than DE driving. Would I choose a 928 for actual racing purposes? Given the cheaper options, especially the availability of parts like transmissions, probably not. I'd strongly consider jumping into a Cayman R. But the 928 is a blast on the track, even in stock form with decent tires on it. I've done a few oiling system modifications, and I plan to add an external oil cooler here shortly. But I don't think that's mandatory for a 928 owner to enjoy the occasional DE. That said, I probably wouldn't recommend it for someone who counts on their 928 as a DD because the risk of damage is always there, even unrelated to engine issues.

hacker-pschorr

I would at least install an oil temp gauge (trans is a good idea too) and keep an eye on it. If you see those start to climb north of 250-260, slow down!

Improving the oil breather system is also a must on the track. There really is no debating this one, the stock system is barely adequate for street use.

I dunno, these engines are not getting any easier to find and a spun rod bearing in even the nicest 928 is a parts car to Mark Anderson. I guess I don't understand the push back for installing very simple and inexpensive upgrades to the lubrication system.

mark kibort

casper's engine had a lot of track miles.... and most importantly, was the older style bottom end, 4.5L with a crank with tiny oil passages for the bearings. the newer cranks are no problem, IF you are smart about racing or tracking the car.

again, we have run these 928s for 15 years and thousands of track miles without a single failure. we are talking WCGT races, SCCA races, pegging the rev limiter, etc etc. no breather issues, no bearing wear, EVER!

just run a good oil, not mobil 1 and you should be good to go for a track day

again, caspers engine was due to the wrong crank being asked to race with . all other failures of his have been due to other external factors before he raced them. (ie, hurt motor to start, running the engine without oil, etc).
any engine that I have been associated with , and im up to about 7 engines now, all have been raced and raced or DE'ed without incident.

terry gt

I have DE my GT 6-7 times and run in the advanced group . Still on street tires , but I push it hard , the GT has a separate oil cooler . Where and how do you install a oil temp gage ? Guess its time for a spacer and old boy p/u . maybe check the rod bearing too

mark kibort

Good points... but the most important thing here is not to abuse the motor. warm ups, good oil , and at the right level. the rev limiter is too high on the GT as greg says And based on HP curves, there is NO reason to shift past 6400rpm anyway , and for DE, you net loss about 5hp for shifting past 6000rpm anyway, so just shift there and have a good time. remember, get the right oil in the engine too. redline, amsoil, something good!

danglerb

However risky running a 928 is on the track, its still the best place to do it. Its certainly not the only place where least cost approach with a 928 doesn't work out long term.

Maybe "safe" route is to not let the tires get ahead of the oiling system?

hacker-pschorr

I have a drilled oil filler plug with a temp sensor install and I'm also installing another temp sensor in a sandwich adapter for the oil filter.
I'm also installing a second oil pressure sender in the sandwich plate. I want to see what the pressure is after the filter.

I like Greg's idea about reading pressure in the heads too. That is how the Corvette engine is setup from the factory.