Better alternator option
10-10-2013, 08:47 PM
#76
If anyone wanted to do this swap but didn't have the time or energy to round up the parts, I have a set-up for sale. Foolishly bought it all and found it's only for you 32V folks. Correct alternator, harness and a brand new crown vic. regulator.
$50 takes it all. PM me.
$50 takes it all. PM me.
10-12-2013, 10:33 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
I purchased my 130 amp alt. from eagle auto electric on ebay. It was reman Bosch upgraded amps. Installed 2 months ago. Direct replacement, 13.2 at idle w/ a/c and lights. 14 on voltage gauge when at speed.
113.00 bucks no core charge.
113.00 bucks no core charge.
07-10-2020, 03:03 PM
#82
Drifting
I'm upgrading my cooling fans and since I already have so many accessories, intercooler pump, intercooler cooling fan, external oil cooler fan, etc, I want to make sure my alternator can keep up. I picked up a 130 amp alternator and have a few questions, so I am resurrecting this discussion.
What pigtail was used to connect to stock wiring?
Does it matter which terminals on the regulator connection goes to B+, stator terminal, and exciter wire?
How has it performed in the last 7 years since this discussion ended?
What pigtail was used to connect to stock wiring?
Does it matter which terminals on the regulator connection goes to B+, stator terminal, and exciter wire?
How has it performed in the last 7 years since this discussion ended?
07-13-2020, 05:02 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
I'm upgrading my cooling fans and since I already have so many accessories, intercooler pump, intercooler cooling fan, external oil cooler fan, etc, I want to make sure my alternator can keep up. I picked up a 130 amp alternator and have a few questions, so I am resurrecting this discussion.
What pigtail was used to connect to stock wiring?
Does it matter which terminals on the regulator connection goes to B+, stator terminal, and exciter wire?
How has it performed in the last 7 years since this discussion ended?
What pigtail was used to connect to stock wiring?
Does it matter which terminals on the regulator connection goes to B+, stator terminal, and exciter wire?
How has it performed in the last 7 years since this discussion ended?
The following 2 users liked this post by Alan:
drkekar (06-12-2021),
medipedicman (07-13-2020)
08-30-2020, 01:39 AM
#86
Electron Wrangler
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I am considering a totally new alternator direction to deal with the Phoenix heat (alternators don't fare well at close to 120F) and my dual battery set-up.
I'd like to find a high quality alternator with the option for a rear air shroud that I can mount fixed in ~the stock position with a tensioner roller arm to provide adjustable tension and to help wrap the belt on the pulley.
For the pulley I want to use a Litens OAD for better decoupling & overrun protection. Then find a 6 phase star @ 60 degree alternator body. I'll strip out the rectifiers for lower self heating and better air cooling, and remove the regulator - so just a brush pack on the alternator for a super stripped down open chassis. Then the only alternator self-heating would be bearing friction and coil self heating - relatively small effects.
Then I'll need to create a 8 way pigtail to connect to the remote regulator and rectifiers located in the cooler driver's front fender area (~following the cooling hose) - with heatsinks and fan assisted cooling for the rectifiers and regulator. Since I have a dual battery set-up I want to use an advanced regulator with remote battery voltage & temperature sensing from both batteries. This is the kind that also knows how long it has been running and adapts accordingly - including switching between bulk, absorption, float and equalization modes depending on charging time & sensor states. It allows much faster (higher voltage) bulk recharging because the sensing & timers vastly reduce the risk of ever overcharging on long drives.
So right now its all still a plan and it will take a good while - but I have sourced the regulator & sensors, sense wiring, rectifiers, TVS diodes, heat sink & fans/supply and have mocked that up a bit. Still working on connectors/wiring to use for the pigtail and the detailed control systems. I want to use the in dash alternator light but give it some more smarts on regulator states & error flash codes. I do still need to identify the actual alternator body and ensure it can mount fixed, operate without the rectifiers (e.g. they aren't structural elements) and ensure a brush only rotor connection is just as reliable as the stock regulator. Then I need to work out the tensioner details - there are off the shelf units that can work, but solid mounting needs to be resolved. Litens OAD's are available from stock.
This will be a complicated build but should provide immunity from heat soak problems and happily charge both batteries without over-doing it in winter and under-doing it every summer. I'll post more when I've made sufficient progress. This may be interesting - but not likely a very reasonable option for most people, lots of parts, much fabrication, difficult wiring implementation and already a quite expensive option and I don't even have the (probably expensive) alternator yet.
Alan
I'd like to find a high quality alternator with the option for a rear air shroud that I can mount fixed in ~the stock position with a tensioner roller arm to provide adjustable tension and to help wrap the belt on the pulley.
For the pulley I want to use a Litens OAD for better decoupling & overrun protection. Then find a 6 phase star @ 60 degree alternator body. I'll strip out the rectifiers for lower self heating and better air cooling, and remove the regulator - so just a brush pack on the alternator for a super stripped down open chassis. Then the only alternator self-heating would be bearing friction and coil self heating - relatively small effects.
Then I'll need to create a 8 way pigtail to connect to the remote regulator and rectifiers located in the cooler driver's front fender area (~following the cooling hose) - with heatsinks and fan assisted cooling for the rectifiers and regulator. Since I have a dual battery set-up I want to use an advanced regulator with remote battery voltage & temperature sensing from both batteries. This is the kind that also knows how long it has been running and adapts accordingly - including switching between bulk, absorption, float and equalization modes depending on charging time & sensor states. It allows much faster (higher voltage) bulk recharging because the sensing & timers vastly reduce the risk of ever overcharging on long drives.
So right now its all still a plan and it will take a good while - but I have sourced the regulator & sensors, sense wiring, rectifiers, TVS diodes, heat sink & fans/supply and have mocked that up a bit. Still working on connectors/wiring to use for the pigtail and the detailed control systems. I want to use the in dash alternator light but give it some more smarts on regulator states & error flash codes. I do still need to identify the actual alternator body and ensure it can mount fixed, operate without the rectifiers (e.g. they aren't structural elements) and ensure a brush only rotor connection is just as reliable as the stock regulator. Then I need to work out the tensioner details - there are off the shelf units that can work, but solid mounting needs to be resolved. Litens OAD's are available from stock.
This will be a complicated build but should provide immunity from heat soak problems and happily charge both batteries without over-doing it in winter and under-doing it every summer. I'll post more when I've made sufficient progress. This may be interesting - but not likely a very reasonable option for most people, lots of parts, much fabrication, difficult wiring implementation and already a quite expensive option and I don't even have the (probably expensive) alternator yet.
Alan
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medipedicman (08-30-2020)
08-31-2020, 08:57 AM
#87
Rennlist Member
Alan, did you look into Greg Brown's alternator alternative?
08-31-2020, 12:35 PM
#88
Electron Wrangler
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Yes I did - but I have a rather unique situation - super extreme heat and a dual battery set-up to charge. I'm also considering some changes to the primary wiring that are incompatible with a single alternator output. This will be a sort of engineering test bed for a that.
I want to split off all the loads that use PWM to a separate 'alternator only' supply with some conditioning but no battery - mainly just isolated from all the ECU's. So this includes the Radiator cooling fans, will include the blower fan after some mods and will likely include new fan coolers for an extra small condenser, an extra small oil cooler and a possibly a main condenser pusher. They wouldn't all run at the same time but it is a higher and electrically noisier load for sure. Having all the controls & connections in the fender is a lot more practical firstly for heat control and secondly for this reconfiguration work. It is a totally over the top move for most. But I do believe the bracketing for a fixed alternator with a tensioner is a very practical direction - keeps tension correct and helps get a better wrap around the small alt pulley. We'll see how that goes, I'd like to make a generic steel design that could be reproduced, but the back-up will be a one off version if that is too hard (e.g. aluminum plate/billet)
Alan
I want to split off all the loads that use PWM to a separate 'alternator only' supply with some conditioning but no battery - mainly just isolated from all the ECU's. So this includes the Radiator cooling fans, will include the blower fan after some mods and will likely include new fan coolers for an extra small condenser, an extra small oil cooler and a possibly a main condenser pusher. They wouldn't all run at the same time but it is a higher and electrically noisier load for sure. Having all the controls & connections in the fender is a lot more practical firstly for heat control and secondly for this reconfiguration work. It is a totally over the top move for most. But I do believe the bracketing for a fixed alternator with a tensioner is a very practical direction - keeps tension correct and helps get a better wrap around the small alt pulley. We'll see how that goes, I'd like to make a generic steel design that could be reproduced, but the back-up will be a one off version if that is too hard (e.g. aluminum plate/billet)
Alan
08-31-2020, 01:12 PM
#89
Former Sponsor
Alan is correct, even my modern design "exposed winding, dual internal fan" alternator heat soaks and looses some efficiency.....but not nearly as much as the stock alternator.
My replacement alternator's original "design location" was in an enclosed engine compartment of a Porsche 997 (at the very top of the engine), which is an incredibly hot environment, with both exhaust heat and engine heat rising to the alternator's position. (Remember that heat rises.)
That is actually one of the reasons I picked this particular alternator as a starting point to modify....it was made to charge a heavily electrical loaded vehicle, while located in a hellishly hot location.
In a 928, these alternators think they are on vacation....the heat in the 928 application is much lower than in a 997!
That being said, one of the projects on my "development list" is to build a heat shield for my alternator, with an attachment for the stock cooling hose, which will attach to an inline fan in the wheel well.
My replacement alternator's original "design location" was in an enclosed engine compartment of a Porsche 997 (at the very top of the engine), which is an incredibly hot environment, with both exhaust heat and engine heat rising to the alternator's position. (Remember that heat rises.)
That is actually one of the reasons I picked this particular alternator as a starting point to modify....it was made to charge a heavily electrical loaded vehicle, while located in a hellishly hot location.
In a 928, these alternators think they are on vacation....the heat in the 928 application is much lower than in a 997!
That being said, one of the projects on my "development list" is to build a heat shield for my alternator, with an attachment for the stock cooling hose, which will attach to an inline fan in the wheel well.
Last edited by GregBBRD; 08-31-2020 at 01:36 PM.
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milrad (08-31-2020)
