danglerb

I was standing in the Renegade shop with a 928 parked out front and money in my pocket, and yes they would be happy to sell me a kit cheap, but the first lesson you need to learn is that putting the motor in and making the car move is a trivial exercise of a couple weekends. Making it turnkey, a daily driver that doesn't overheat, passes a smog test, and I can hand the keys to my wife and let her drive, is the hard part that takes months, years, frequently never completed. Renegade has done dozens of conversions and they know its a BIG project AFTER the mechanical install is done, which is why they couldn't give me even an estimate except over $20k.

This isn't a purist thing, its a combination of having seen the results, and practical issues to get there. For a start it is very likely the 928 you bought that doesn't quite run needs a good $10k in fixing outside of any motor issues, and many of them will be more difficult with an engine swap.

Plenty of us are very cheap, we use Porsche parts not for purity, but because after many many attempts in most cases they remain the cheapest long term choice. They work, nothing else stops working, and need no grinding to fit.

Finally what do you plan to do with the result? Its too slow for drag racing, no traction. Motor swap knocks you out of anything PCA or POA, and to most sanctioning bodies you are now in the same unlimited class as purpose built track cars, and you will NOT be competitive. Between 300 and 350 rwhp any street tire on almost any street is going to spin in the first three gears, again the kid at 7/11 with half the money you have in your car will kick your but in a cheap domestic car setup to get traction.

**

Somebody posted about not using a 928 in nice condition, but that is EXACTY what you need to do. Start with a well maintained daily driver, sell the running engine, and drop in a stock Chevy motor. You still have lots of minor wiring and hose issues, but that is the CHEAPEST route to a daily driver swap. Not a lot of difference in power, no driveline issue, no cheap hot rod engine issues, but its a running swap.

V-Fib

I still love this place......

Dozman

Danglerb and others.

Ok, Lets put it this way, if ledee gets the euro running. Whats the euro worth? Yeah I know, only what a buyer is willing to buy it for, or trade hime for a 928 he can conert to a chevy. Fair right? Save a euro and everyone is happy well most. The few select owners saying don't ruin a euro talk with leedee get it running work out a deal to buy or trade a 928.

I know by far I have donated many many parts on here on the years past, contrary to past BS slanderour statements against me. Even sent Randy V "free sun visors years ago" I have all posts and emails, ad shipping slips to actually prove the bs slander against me is completely BS. Even saved posts from other members that they deleted. Up and including severe BS about Greg Greys thread years ago. Not trying to open a can of worms.... Over time a few select people asked for free parts even though they had money to buy the parts, or just didnt want to pay for the parts. Some members even gave free parts willingly, and still do. Some own People gave the parts and advice in years past to others. Just because leedee is new, no reason as a 928 community not to help another owner.
I never begged nor asked for free parts. Why not help ledee with all the wisedom on the board to get the euro running. Many can donate misc parts they have in hand. Leedee gets the euro running. If ledee and someone agrees if euro running, then also agress to sell that euro or trade for another 928 to do his 928 conversion.

WHY NOT?

Can't be nothing major in parts. Sounds like a few just need to stand up and give leedee a logical order of diagnoising the problem, and fixing the shark.

Time to get the forum back to how helpful it was to owners of years ago.

then there would be no discusion bickering on about ruining a euro, leedee can go forward with his conversion.

At the same time, leedee should open a thread of who has done, is doing a conversion or thinking of doing a conversion. Providing a thread putting info together just like certain sc threads, turboing, led conversions, leather interiors, rolling fenders, aftermarket ecms, etc... As forum helping other owners out is what Rennlist was about in '98 or so.

I guess more comes out of helping instead of parting the sea with arguements, some can DO conversions, and done right. PULL knowledge.

The engine , harness's, misc parts not needed for the conversion will be used by the community to keep other 928's on the road using the un needed parts.

Seems pretty simple.

Landseer

Read this month's post history, all 245 of them.
All the knowledge of rennlist has been helping on the rescue of not 1, but 2 no start cars.

And continues to help when asked!

But we are dealing with at least two cars, lots of threads.
Ones a Euro, ones a USA and there might be a third or fourth too.

I'm having trouble figuring out which car the OP is working on and what his objective is.

Consolidating to one rescue thread per car might help.
Plus, the rescue / no start questions are covered ad infinitum in the archives, so research would help.

I want the Euro to run. Then its not junk anymore.

Dozman

I hear you landseer. about using search.

Just on the euro.

Lets just help him get it running. My knowledge is limited on on engines from 85 and up.

Have seen many people in the past, lots of help for people not using search. Let's give this guy a pass, and give him a logical course to diagnoises to get the euro running. So he is new and energetic anxious.

many folks have been there. just saying.

Aspkiller

I was about to say something similar 30 or so posts ago. I did the 82 using a new LS6 with full accessory package, a MEFI ECU and HP Tune Kit, custom 4" exhaust, rebuilt original 3sp auto, new upgraded brake/clutch system AND a few of Renegade's modification parts, all for about $20K as it stands with almost everything mechanical rebuilt or new. Most of the work was done at a shop rate of $75/hr. It still needs new leather on the front seats and a new sound system.

If I'm in it @25K finished, I will be more than satisfied. It's faster than a GT/GTS, gets better gas mileage, rides the same, looks almost as good AND it's not store bought.

Oh, forgot. My wife can get in it and go anywhere she wants without fear.

Finally, Renegade did the first version of my race car when I was only thinking about doing ORR. 100% endorsement on their parts.

danglerb

We focus on cars here, and that is a good thing, but the overriding issue isn't about cars, its about owners, and how to make owners happy with their 928's.

A properly running Euro S is a 928 that makes its owner happy, most of the time.

No more than 10% of the Chevy swap owners end up happy with the results.

Making big changes to a 928 that isn't in proper running condition is almost always a BIG mistake. Two time tested and proven suggestions;

Start with the best 928 you can find and afford.
Put it in 100% factory condition before you run off on a tangent making it "better".

Follow those two rules and your chances of being a happy owner are much much greater than otherwise. Break both of them and many of us are always looking for cheap parts.

Lloyd

Renegade does a great job and I applaud the service that they provide. However, the cost of a conversion can be reduced significantly if you don't buy the expensive Renegade parts. For example, Their special expensive clutch disc, $375, with "Porsche spline" can be replaced with a Chrysler disc which has the same spline for $150. Their special $975 radiator can be replaced by a Griffen or other performance radiator for $300. Their headers $1000, I paid $350. Their motor mounts $350, I paid $100. Their Spal fan $400. My Spal fan $200. Their bellhousing, Hyd clutch, throwout bearing, pilot bushing is double the price for off the shelf standard parts. No doubt, You pay extra for their services....and they put it all in a box and ship it to you. This conversion is not difficult and does not have to cost alot of money.

17prospective buyer

Every place has parts mark up, that's how they make most of their money, dealerships make a boatload on their parts mark up. No surprises to me, it's always been that way.

odurandina

please post full sized pic [your avatar] to the ihi thread up there on OT.

77tony

Good to know. T

skunkwrkz

Ok, so I am kinda resurrecting this thread, as I have recent experience with a long term V8 swap to my RX7 and think that the OP really has the right idea. Although I agree about going the LS route, as the LS1 is capable of some incredible HP/TQ for a very low initial investment for the engine itself, as it takes to bolt-ons like flies on..........well..... point made ;-)

Let me start off, however, by introducing myself........ as I am new to forum, but this is certainly not my first rodeo as I could drive when the S4 came out and have restored/modified everything from Detroit Muscle to 4th Gen Supra's to spec racing an E30 BMW in NASA. I also, having visited Renegade Hybrids (about 10 yrs ago) in Vegas was very impressed with how well "sorted" their turn-key 928's were that were done in house for customers.

That being said, I have been wanting to own a 928 since I was a kid and watched Tom Cruise dump his dad's in the "drink" in Risky Business. Originally, I was dead set on doing a swap on my 84 928S 5psd, but now I waffle a bit about what I want out the car. Mine is a prime candidate, for a swap, as it was well maintained but it has 190K + on engine/tranny which actually speaks miles about this engine considering the cars in it's class of performance during the 80's and 90's. I can see swapping in another Porsche low mileage engine and tranny, or even rebuilding the long block myself....... but if I was faced with having it rebuilt, it would be an LSx type swap for sure. However, I want AC and PS and all the other amenities that owning a GT like this entitles........this is perhaps what makes me less enthusiastic about a swap now since I know you can "marry" the GM systems to ours, but as I learned in my RX7 swap this is NEVER as "plug n' play as one is led to believe. I actually did away with all accessories except PS and PB for my Cobra 302/T56 Viper swap, but since I wanted to make it minimalist with weight and technology it didn't matter. But still, I give the OP props for wanting to do it as I caught flack for doing it to me RX7. I also can understand people's concerns on here about attrition as a swap is NEVER on budget......but I knew that going in and was realistic about what it was actually going to cost. In the end, a swap is relatively easy to set the motor/tranny in the chassis unless it requires modification or you fab your own mounts........What causes attrition with swaps, from what I have seen, is that people had no idea how time consuming it is to make something more than just a novelty......

danglerb

Slightly newer thread is going hot and heavy, but its an OLD topic that comes up regularly.

Why assume your 190k 928 engine needs anything?

Chances are it could use the heads off, valve job and head gaskets, but rings and bores, and bearings may be fine. Its "unusual" to need to bore a block and go up a size in pistons, also costly so most just buy a short block in good shape.

Lots of LS swaps out there. I used to hang around Ls1tech hybrid section, and the knowledge and support there is very good. Most of the problems are on the 928 side. The 928 is a handful in stock trim to keep happy, it rarely responds well to parts substitution, so a Chevy hybrid can be beyond the skill of many otherwise good mechanics. Significantly bump the power and the issues double as things fail both due to age and stress. All in all ending with a nice driver the swap will cost a lot more than using good sources and genuine Porsche parts.

danglerb

Sounds good to me, please give me a firm quote on the price you will charge for a ready to hand the keys to my wife conversion. I supply a good rolling chassis and some local wrecker will have an LS1 cheap. I'm thinking Black Forest Racing did one for about $9k, but doesn't sound like they want to do that again.

skunkwrkz

Honestly, if you had said this BEFORE I took delivery of the car, I might have argued the swap point more. However, even though the mileage is high, it's a Cali car, is a one owner, garaged it's whole life and has good compression. For now, I am doing the requisite maintenance and have purchased a good Y-pipe exhaust (from the headers back) I found that should help it breath better along with adding one of Lizards short shifters to hopefully extend the life of the synchros AND make it a bit more fun on "The Dragon's Tale" in NC. For the foreseeable future, I am going to keep the Porsche drive train and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. What I really am interested in is the C5 Vette Transaxle 6spd swap instead at this point to be honest (especially given that my 5spd is the Porsche sourced and not the later Borg Warner).........I hope this goes on sale soon as it's being discussed in another thread. Thanks for the advice.......much appreciated