mark kibort

This is not entirely true. so lets just agree to disagree. braking has a lot more effects than putting the power down. if the weight is more up front, there will be advantages. comparing a ferrari with rear weight bias and making it a front weighted car is as silly as taking a viper and making it rear weight biased. the designs of the car are different.

as far as the times at the "Ring". please, find a consistant track where driver error or style is not the dominant factor. put those cars at laguna and the GTR would get spanked by equal drivers due to absolute weight, and HP to weight advantages. (without question) . want to see what happens to the GTR in the real world?? just watch the clip of our own rennlist "Mike" at WCGT where he raced one of the top guys in his cup car, vs the GTR. very very even. in fact, the ligther 911 had the advantage in braking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug3yWZqzJA0

mark kibort

again, all racing series regulate absolute weight, and not much in the weight distribution area, unless it departs from the original production cars design too far.

you can always find someone to quote. but reality is this. lighter is faster and if you find a driver that CAN drive, he can drive around the imbalance and be faster. the physics just tell too much of the advantages of being ligher, even if there is an imbalance. (minor, not major)

Speedtoys

Some classes restrict where you can place ballast..in cabin or unrestricted. A few (Honda challenge) still might..but used to, say only pass floor between the OEM seat attachment points.


However, lead shot in frame rails..is still illegal. (I find one a year)

hacker-pschorr

“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.”
- Colin Champman

Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.

Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.

ptuomov

The competition is still in the denial stage after the introduction of Nissan GT-R with the Japanese spec sticky tires. Porsche in particular. Every day Porsche pretends that GT-R didn't happen will mean a day less time spent trying to catch up.

(And this from a 991 and 928 owner who doesn't own a GT-R.)

hacker-pschorr

Where did the GTR place at LeMans, Sebring, and Daytona last year or in the final of ALMS or Grand-AM?

slate blue

Well I am not sure what class you are talking about regarding lemans, Sebring etc, are you talking about this car? It races in a category called. GT1

http://au.zinio.com/browse/issues/in...t=&categoryId=

mark kibort

YES, exactly!
4x4, a ton of power, etc. its going to be fast. you dont need an expert to design or drive this to some fast times. Its a great car, but there are a lot of great cars out there. There ar a lot of heavy cars that have run FAST.
remember the audis at road america??? 2:14s on DOTs at near 3600lbs. (3300lbs and 275 rewards weight added . ) NOW that was amazing, and it wasnt so much the drivers, as Galati did it too! (as well as pobst)
The cars had, rumored, less than stock street HP.



UH, all GT1 is not equal. we are talking about GT2 in American lemans, or GT in Rolex, etc. the GTR has not been a force . not to say that it couldnt be, because it is a good car, but its a simple formula. in the end, its about HP and weight, the rest is fine tuning.
The article mentioned is about a class that is NOT apart of the series we are refering too.

Renn_Thrills

One hot lap does not a track or race car make. Ask GTR owners how long they can run at 10/10ths on track before burning up their brakes. GT2's and 3's will run all day long wide open, when the GTR is a smoking heap in the paddock... you can't get around that weight. Soon the 991 GT's and Turbo come out (the modest 991S already beats the 997 gt3 ring time, which is fairly stunning).

All this besides the GTR looking like a pile of Godzilla crap... (make that a steaming pile of Godzilla crap after the first hot lap bakes its brakes).

No offense to slate or GTR owners.

mark kibort

again, the GTR is a good car, just not as great as it is cracked up to be. the ring is great. awesome that it ripped a fantastic time there, but its not the yardstick by any stretch.
Here how it stacks up in real life.
World Challenge GT. it ended up in the top 10, barely. this is among some amazingly fast cars. cars that are as fast now, on slicks as the old ALMS GT2s of yesterday (2003ish). the caddies, vets GT3cups (modified) and ferraris are pretty friggen fast! and the light GT3s with less HP, are always near the front against some pretty big HP due to their weight! as I always say, its about HP /weight ratio AND absolute weight. the rest if fine tuning and most racing orgs would agree!

SeanR

Once again, you guys are fvcking up a good thread by talking about a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Imagine Kibort involved.

Well done.

slate blue

Well in general I obviously don't disagree, maybe I can better clarify? The weight distribution issue is closely associated with tire contact patch and maximizing the placement of the weight on those contact patches.

In some ways it is like having optimum damper settings, the optimum damper settings keep the tyre in contact with the bitumen. However maximizing the tire contact patch may not be possible without the correct weight balance.

Going back to Colin Chapman's saying, it is of course basically correct but it is a basic saying without today's levels of complexity. If we go back to some banned F1 technology used by the Renault F1 team when Alonso was winning his world titles, they fitted a device which was relatively heavy, certainly heavy for an F1 car and high up in the nose of the chassis in front of the drivers feet, this device counter acted the diving under brakes and the squat under acceleration.

It also made the car ride the bumps better. It was called the mass damper. it got banned because it was said to be a aerodynamic device. The reason they said this which was hotly disputed was the attitude of the car was much more consistent and this meant the cars aero worked better also.

It effectively made the cars weight distribution more consistent allowing the tires to maintain their contact with the track better. So all in all the the weight removal or weight reallocation must provide an overall benefit and if it results in less overall grip in relation to it's relative weight it won't be of benefit.

Bilal928S4

So what is the update on the kit. I just started reading this thread and the last few pages should be deleted from this thread and moved to it's own thread. Just my opinion, ofcourse.

IcemanG17

Is this a GTR love fest or what? Is it an excellent "street" car that can throw down a few incredibly quick laps or drag races.....yes it is....bottom line, throwing that much weight around on track ALL DAY on street tires is going to have insane wear.....I saw a GTR in my group (I passed him numerous times) he ran precisely half a day.....he cooked his brakes and blew a tire..... Corvettes can and do run all day.... Why..... minus 500-300lbs

Dinsdale Piranha

Howdy Feller's , Dinsdale here. Were still a couple months out on the kits. Doing a complete ls3 / vette trans install first. We want this to be a trouble free kit .
If you can't wait that long then Check out the Infamous "Motodyne.com" They're Pretending to sell a kit using pictures of our 6 speed installation on they're web site !
"Don't be fooled by cheap imitations" Regards Dinsdale