6 Speed Trans Swap/Pics
#196
Rennlist Member
The Nissan GTR isn't extremely powerful, even if we talk about the current mode,l it doesn't have the power or light weight (around half a tonne lighter) like a Pagani Zonda F which it beat around the Nurburgring, it isn't made of of carbon fibre like the Zonda F. You can't compare the prices either. I think if lightweight was truly that advantageous you would see the Zonda F Clubsport winning that contest.
They do fix weight distribution in F1, a category that can afford to change weight distribution. Many catergories of racing will though say you need to use certain standard components and mounting points and this will keep weight distributions relatively stock without having to regulate it.
The weight distribution they agreed on for F1 was 45/55% a distribution that Ferrari say is the optimum for their road cars. In F1 when you could move the distribution around they Never were more than 2% outside that window and that would be unusual. So I completely dispute that a front weight bias will give advantages on a certain track or any track for that matter. Wheel bases change in F1 but that has more to do with the aerodynamics.
Another fast but not overly powerful car is the Lexus LFA and again weight distribution was a key point of development and that car is like the 928 with a front engine and rear transaxle. Weight over the rear axle is very important to get the power down, taking weight away will limit the amount of power you can apply. This difference will be much bigger than the effect of weight to power ratio.
They do fix weight distribution in F1, a category that can afford to change weight distribution. Many catergories of racing will though say you need to use certain standard components and mounting points and this will keep weight distributions relatively stock without having to regulate it.
The weight distribution they agreed on for F1 was 45/55% a distribution that Ferrari say is the optimum for their road cars. In F1 when you could move the distribution around they Never were more than 2% outside that window and that would be unusual. So I completely dispute that a front weight bias will give advantages on a certain track or any track for that matter. Wheel bases change in F1 but that has more to do with the aerodynamics.
Another fast but not overly powerful car is the Lexus LFA and again weight distribution was a key point of development and that car is like the 928 with a front engine and rear transaxle. Weight over the rear axle is very important to get the power down, taking weight away will limit the amount of power you can apply. This difference will be much bigger than the effect of weight to power ratio.
as far as the times at the "Ring". please, find a consistant track where driver error or style is not the dominant factor. put those cars at laguna and the GTR would get spanked by equal drivers due to absolute weight, and HP to weight advantages. (without question) . want to see what happens to the GTR in the real world?? just watch the clip of our own rennlist "Mike" at WCGT where he raced one of the top guys in his cup car, vs the GTR. very very even. in fact, the ligther 911 had the advantage in braking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug3yWZqzJA0
Last edited by mark kibort; 11-28-2012 at 02:38 PM.
#197
Rennlist Member
>>>>Better weight distribution will be gained by the heavier transmission and differential, bigger brakes and bigger wheels etc.
most would agree with that
">>>>Removing weight from the car in the wrong places may well make the car slower."
Right, so i guess M Anderson got much slower after gutting all the weight out of the back of his?
">>>>Anybody that tells me a good car is one that is light with low power to weight ratio is an amateur"
Proof right there that you can find someone in this world to claim just about anything under the sun...
most would agree with that
">>>>Removing weight from the car in the wrong places may well make the car slower."
Right, so i guess M Anderson got much slower after gutting all the weight out of the back of his?
">>>>Anybody that tells me a good car is one that is light with low power to weight ratio is an amateur"
Proof right there that you can find someone in this world to claim just about anything under the sun...
you can always find someone to quote. but reality is this. lighter is faster and if you find a driver that CAN drive, he can drive around the imbalance and be faster. the physics just tell too much of the advantages of being ligher, even if there is an imbalance. (minor, not major)
#198
Rennlist Member
Some classes restrict where you can place ballast..in cabin or unrestricted. A few (Honda challenge) still might..but used to, say only pass floor between the OEM seat attachment points.
However, lead shot in frame rails..is still illegal. (I find one a year)
However, lead shot in frame rails..is still illegal. (I find one a year)
#199
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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- Colin Champman
Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.
Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.
#200
Nordschleife Master
The competition is still in the denial stage after the introduction of Nissan GT-R with the Japanese spec sticky tires. Porsche in particular. Every day Porsche pretends that GT-R didn't happen will mean a day less time spent trying to catch up.
(And this from a 991 and 928 owner who doesn't own a GT-R.)
(And this from a 991 and 928 owner who doesn't own a GT-R.)
#201
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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The competition is still in the denial stage after the introduction of Nissan GT-R with the Japanese spec sticky tires. Porsche in particular. Every day Porsche pretends that GT-R didn't happen will mean a day less time spent trying to catch up.
(And this from a 991 and 928 owner who doesn't own a GT-R.)
(And this from a 991 and 928 owner who doesn't own a GT-R.)
#202
http://au.zinio.com/browse/issues/in...t=&categoryId=
#203
Rennlist Member
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.”
- Colin Champman
Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.
Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.
- Colin Champman
Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.
Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.
4x4, a ton of power, etc. its going to be fast. you dont need an expert to design or drive this to some fast times. Its a great car, but there are a lot of great cars out there. There ar a lot of heavy cars that have run FAST.
remember the audis at road america??? 2:14s on DOTs at near 3600lbs. (3300lbs and 275 rewards weight added . ) NOW that was amazing, and it wasnt so much the drivers, as Galati did it too! (as well as pobst)
The cars had, rumored, less than stock street HP.
Well I am not sure what class you are talking about regarding lemans, Sebring etc, are you talking about this car? It races in a category called. GT1
http://au.zinio.com/browse/issues/in...t=&categoryId=
http://au.zinio.com/browse/issues/in...t=&categoryId=
The article mentioned is about a class that is NOT apart of the series we are refering too.
#204
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One hot lap does not a track or race car make. Ask GTR owners how long they can run at 10/10ths on track before burning up their brakes. GT2's and 3's will run all day long wide open, when the GTR is a smoking heap in the paddock... you can't get around that weight. Soon the 991 GT's and Turbo come out (the modest 991S already beats the 997 gt3 ring time, which is fairly stunning).
All this besides the GTR looking like a pile of Godzilla crap... (make that a steaming pile of Godzilla crap after the first hot lap bakes its brakes).
No offense to slate or GTR owners.
All this besides the GTR looking like a pile of Godzilla crap... (make that a steaming pile of Godzilla crap after the first hot lap bakes its brakes).
No offense to slate or GTR owners.
#205
Rennlist Member
One hot lap does not a track or race car make. Ask GTR owners how long they can run at 10/10ths on track before burning up their brakes. GT2's and 3's will run all day long wide open, when the GTR is a smoking heap in the paddock... you can't get around that weight. Soon the 991 GT's and Turbo come out (the modest 991S already beats the 997 gt3 ring time, which is fairly stunning).
All this besides the GTR looking like a pile of Godzilla crap... (make that a steaming pile of Godzilla crap after the first hot lap bakes its brakes).
No offense to slate or GTR owners.
All this besides the GTR looking like a pile of Godzilla crap... (make that a steaming pile of Godzilla crap after the first hot lap bakes its brakes).
No offense to slate or GTR owners.
Here how it stacks up in real life.
World Challenge GT. it ended up in the top 10, barely. this is among some amazingly fast cars. cars that are as fast now, on slicks as the old ALMS GT2s of yesterday (2003ish). the caddies, vets GT3cups (modified) and ferraris are pretty friggen fast! and the light GT3s with less HP, are always near the front against some pretty big HP due to their weight! as I always say, its about HP /weight ratio AND absolute weight. the rest if fine tuning and most racing orgs would agree!
#206
Once again, you guys are fvcking up a good thread by talking about a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Imagine Kibort involved.
Well done.
Well done.
#207
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.”
- Colin Champman
Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.
Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.
- Colin Champman
Wake me up when the chief GTR designed has an F1 title under his belt.
Until then I'll give him props for designing a computer that allows a 3,800lb sow to handle like a lighter car in the hands of an amateur, and spin a fast 'ring time with a pro behind the wheel.
In some ways it is like having optimum damper settings, the optimum damper settings keep the tyre in contact with the bitumen. However maximizing the tire contact patch may not be possible without the correct weight balance.
Going back to Colin Chapman's saying, it is of course basically correct but it is a basic saying without today's levels of complexity. If we go back to some banned F1 technology used by the Renault F1 team when Alonso was winning his world titles, they fitted a device which was relatively heavy, certainly heavy for an F1 car and high up in the nose of the chassis in front of the drivers feet, this device counter acted the diving under brakes and the squat under acceleration.
It also made the car ride the bumps better. It was called the mass damper. it got banned because it was said to be a aerodynamic device. The reason they said this which was hotly disputed was the attitude of the car was much more consistent and this meant the cars aero worked better also.
It effectively made the cars weight distribution more consistent allowing the tires to maintain their contact with the track better. So all in all the the weight removal or weight reallocation must provide an overall benefit and if it results in less overall grip in relation to it's relative weight it won't be of benefit.
#208
Drifting
So what is the update on the kit. I just started reading this thread and the last few pages should be deleted from this thread and moved to it's own thread. Just my opinion, ofcourse.
#209
Race Director
Is this a GTR love fest or what? Is it an excellent "street" car that can throw down a few incredibly quick laps or drag races.....yes it is....bottom line, throwing that much weight around on track ALL DAY on street tires is going to have insane wear.....I saw a GTR in my group (I passed him numerous times) he ran precisely half a day.....he cooked his brakes and blew a tire..... Corvettes can and do run all day.... Why..... minus 500-300lbs
#210
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Howdy Feller's , Dinsdale here. Were still a couple months out on the kits. Doing a complete ls3 / vette trans install first. We want this to be a trouble free kit .
If you can't wait that long then Check out the Infamous "Motodyne.com" They're Pretending to sell a kit using pictures of our 6 speed installation on they're web site !
"Don't be fooled by cheap imitations" Regards Dinsdale
If you can't wait that long then Check out the Infamous "Motodyne.com" They're Pretending to sell a kit using pictures of our 6 speed installation on they're web site !
"Don't be fooled by cheap imitations" Regards Dinsdale