Official #30 Revival / Rescue Thread
02-14-2013, 03:19 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My phone died during that video...If anyone can tell me how to film properly on my iphone I would appreciate it...the vidoe is too narrow...maybe turn it in "landscape" mode...or is there a U-tube tool?
02-14-2013, 03:22 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-10-2013
Sorry the videos are short...my phone died....
End result...I was able to get her to idle just fine by herself....she quit smoking, but smelled really rich (of course, she had a bout 4 gallons of gas, mixed with 3/4 can of sea foam, 1/2 can of berrymans B-12, and a splash of marvel mystery oil....).
The car idles on it's own, although a little miss in it occasionally, and it idles about 500rpm, so it is a little rough, but none-the-less, idles on it's own.....after about an hour of idling by itself, my fuel pump started "squealing" and rattling...i am thinking it was running out of gas. I did have a fuel line blow off early on, and lost quite a bit of gas....
Here is the big issue now....as soon as I even think about touching the gas pedal, she cuts off....idles no problem, but can not give any throttle.....any thoughts?
My next step is to put more gas in the tank, and see if she evens out....wondering if fuel pressure is too low?
Sorry the videos are short...my phone died....
End result...I was able to get her to idle just fine by herself....she quit smoking, but smelled really rich (of course, she had a bout 4 gallons of gas, mixed with 3/4 can of sea foam, 1/2 can of berrymans B-12, and a splash of marvel mystery oil....).
The car idles on it's own, although a little miss in it occasionally, and it idles about 500rpm, so it is a little rough, but none-the-less, idles on it's own.....after about an hour of idling by itself, my fuel pump started "squealing" and rattling...i am thinking it was running out of gas. I did have a fuel line blow off early on, and lost quite a bit of gas....
Here is the big issue now....as soon as I even think about touching the gas pedal, she cuts off....idles no problem, but can not give any throttle.....any thoughts?
My next step is to put more gas in the tank, and see if she evens out....wondering if fuel pressure is too low?
02-14-2013, 03:22 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-10-2013
ok...also...the tach is working, the oil pressure gauge is working (2.5 bar at idle), voltmeter is working, fuel gauge no worky, nothing else working or checked....ran out of daytime....
ok...also...the tach is working, the oil pressure gauge is working (2.5 bar at idle), voltmeter is working, fuel gauge no worky, nothing else working or checked....ran out of daytime....
02-14-2013, 03:24 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-11-2013
I am thinking about tearing down the WUR and the CIS distributor and regasket / re-oring them both...I have read through the Bosch CIS book about four times now....don't have a CIS kit yet, but it is on the short list....I think fuel delivery is the main problem right now....I also think I have less fuel than I thought...my pump started making a noise like it had rocks there at the end if the evening...I recalculated, and I believe I only had about 5 gallons in the tank, and not only did I have a hose pop off and spew gas, I also had a day of start attempts and 2 hours of her idling...so I gots to go get more push water...
I am thinking about tearing down the WUR and the CIS distributor and regasket / re-oring them both...I have read through the Bosch CIS book about four times now....don't have a CIS kit yet, but it is on the short list....I think fuel delivery is the main problem right now....I also think I have less fuel than I thought...my pump started making a noise like it had rocks there at the end if the evening...I recalculated, and I believe I only had about 5 gallons in the tank, and not only did I have a hose pop off and spew gas, I also had a day of start attempts and 2 hours of her idling...so I gots to go get more push water...
02-14-2013, 03:26 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-11-2013
I started her up again tonight, and let her idle for about an hour. Took me a while to get it to start...I actually had to hold the plunger down a little bit to keep it running until it warmed up, then it would idle on its own...about 300 rpm...I watched the temperature gauge go about 1/2 way, then drop a little..so it looks like the thermostat is working. (Once I get her mechanically stable, I am going to do a TB / WP and replace the thermostat as well). Also noticed that at temperature, and app. 300 rpm, oil pressure was at 1.5 bar...that sound right?
Also, it was running really rich, almost to the point where it was making me sick and burning my eyes, and I had the shop door open...I walked around the car to the back to get some fresh air, and noticed that in my excitement to start her again, I had left off the gas cap when I added some fuel (app 8 gals). Once I screwed the cap back on, the car did not really run any differently, but the rich smell went away almost instantly...funny how that works...
So, thoughts? Why won't she start without me holding the paddle down just a little, could it be the WUR? Why can't I give it any gas at the pedal (still dies instantly when I touch the gas pedal). I am sure she still has some gum up issues... I did clean the throttle body thoroughly when I had the spider off and did the vacuum lines. My pump is making a loud buzzing...I don't know if she is pushing really hard trying to get fuel through the filter / accumulator / CIS distributor / injectors, possibly trying to overcome gum and goop, or if it just crappy. (It is the china one)... The one I just ordered is a Hayg...I will be changing them both out with BOSCH or equivalent (found an awesome Israeli pump) on down the road...but goal 1 was to get her to run properly....soooo close....
Won't get to work on her any tomorrow...wife's BD.
I started her up again tonight, and let her idle for about an hour. Took me a while to get it to start...I actually had to hold the plunger down a little bit to keep it running until it warmed up, then it would idle on its own...about 300 rpm...I watched the temperature gauge go about 1/2 way, then drop a little..so it looks like the thermostat is working. (Once I get her mechanically stable, I am going to do a TB / WP and replace the thermostat as well). Also noticed that at temperature, and app. 300 rpm, oil pressure was at 1.5 bar...that sound right?
Also, it was running really rich, almost to the point where it was making me sick and burning my eyes, and I had the shop door open...I walked around the car to the back to get some fresh air, and noticed that in my excitement to start her again, I had left off the gas cap when I added some fuel (app 8 gals). Once I screwed the cap back on, the car did not really run any differently, but the rich smell went away almost instantly...funny how that works...
So, thoughts? Why won't she start without me holding the paddle down just a little, could it be the WUR? Why can't I give it any gas at the pedal (still dies instantly when I touch the gas pedal). I am sure she still has some gum up issues... I did clean the throttle body thoroughly when I had the spider off and did the vacuum lines. My pump is making a loud buzzing...I don't know if she is pushing really hard trying to get fuel through the filter / accumulator / CIS distributor / injectors, possibly trying to overcome gum and goop, or if it just crappy. (It is the china one)... The one I just ordered is a Hayg...I will be changing them both out with BOSCH or equivalent (found an awesome Israeli pump) on down the road...but goal 1 was to get her to run properly....soooo close....
Won't get to work on her any tomorrow...wife's BD.
02-14-2013, 03:27 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-12-2013
I believe...that the flapper is hanging up...if I push the side of it closer to the firewall, it won't go down until I push real hard, then it "pops", like its sticking....if I push the front, it goes down with little to no resistance....got me thinking, when I bought the car and removed he spider, the flapper was very rusty, and would not move at all. I unbolted it, took it out, cleaned it with a wire wheel on my drill, sprayed it with rust oleum clear, and put it back in...I thoroughly cleaned the Throttle Body, and moved on. Never thought about cleaning the housing that the flapper sits in...I am betting that there is a crusty ridge in the housing, making my flapper stick. Can't play with It tonight, going out for wife's birthday, but tomorrow, look out.
I believe...that the flapper is hanging up...if I push the side of it closer to the firewall, it won't go down until I push real hard, then it "pops", like its sticking....if I push the front, it goes down with little to no resistance....got me thinking, when I bought the car and removed he spider, the flapper was very rusty, and would not move at all. I unbolted it, took it out, cleaned it with a wire wheel on my drill, sprayed it with rust oleum clear, and put it back in...I thoroughly cleaned the Throttle Body, and moved on. Never thought about cleaning the housing that the flapper sits in...I am betting that there is a crusty ridge in the housing, making my flapper stick. Can't play with It tonight, going out for wife's birthday, but tomorrow, look out.
02-14-2013, 03:29 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2-13-2013
Tonight.....Replaced the bypass pipe with a new fuel pump, so I am back to running (2) pumps. Made absolutely no difference, except the noisy pump is now quiet again....
Took out the CIS plate...found that it was definitely hanging up. Took my dremel and lightly cleaned up all around the outer edge...no longer hanging up....made no difference.
To start it, and keep it running, I have to slightly push down on the CIS plate.....I can not give it any fuel....dies as soon as I touch the gas pedal. Could my cat be bad? How do I know if my Cat is plugged up, besides taking it out?
Hard as a mother to start cold....idles about 500-700 rpm once warmed up, for a few minutes, then drops back to about 250-300 before it just cuts off...starts right back up, runs great for a few minutes, then rpm drops, engine "lopes" for a few, then cuts off..
So Problem 1) hard to start cold, 2) hard to keep idling more than 15min by itself, 3) cannot give it any throttle at all, 4) exhaust smells very rich...still burns my eyes....
Could this be due to catalytic? I am sure it is possible its plugged, the muffler is full of holes, and "nesting" material did blow out of the pipes when she started up....
Tonight.....Replaced the bypass pipe with a new fuel pump, so I am back to running (2) pumps. Made absolutely no difference, except the noisy pump is now quiet again....
Took out the CIS plate...found that it was definitely hanging up. Took my dremel and lightly cleaned up all around the outer edge...no longer hanging up....made no difference.
To start it, and keep it running, I have to slightly push down on the CIS plate.....I can not give it any fuel....dies as soon as I touch the gas pedal. Could my cat be bad? How do I know if my Cat is plugged up, besides taking it out?
Hard as a mother to start cold....idles about 500-700 rpm once warmed up, for a few minutes, then drops back to about 250-300 before it just cuts off...starts right back up, runs great for a few minutes, then rpm drops, engine "lopes" for a few, then cuts off..
So Problem 1) hard to start cold, 2) hard to keep idling more than 15min by itself, 3) cannot give it any throttle at all, 4) exhaust smells very rich...still burns my eyes....
Could this be due to catalytic? I am sure it is possible its plugged, the muffler is full of holes, and "nesting" material did blow out of the pipes when she started up....
02-14-2013, 03:31 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Today!
I have been reading the Bosch manuals, and multiple other threads...I found a great thread referencing a Ferrari site, that goes through the tear-down and rebuild of the WUR...looks ultra easy....and another document that shows how to disassemble, service, and re-gasket the fuel distributor...again, looks simple as pie....so I am considering both those routes...can't hurt given that this car sat 20 years, I did not expect her to fire at all at this stage....
Dumb question...where EXACTLY are the "little strainers/screens" everyone talks about on the WUR and distributor...I took loose the compression fittings at the fuel lines, and saw nothing....are they under the "banjo bolts" on the distributor head?
Again...ran a little tight on cash buying needed parts (to me anyway ), bought injectors, a removal tool, oil plug, bolt extractor set, oil and filter, CV boot kits, steering boots (don't know why I bought these boots right now...got caught up with the Pelican online order system I guess), fuel pump, clutch line (thanks again Brian), not to mention still collecting the wire and material for my workshop, none of this comes out of bill money, all side jobs, and computer work (did I mention I repair computers as a side business...have for 25 years...irrelevant tho')...trying to scrape up for the CIS pressure test kit...should be able to get it soon tho'...reversed my priorities a tad...
On a funny (or not) side note...my dad, as I mentioned before, a machinist by trade, was an auto mechanic for many years before I was born, and specialized in German cars, mostly VW-Audi-Benz...did tons of air cooled Porsche....when he retired, I got all his tools....I couldn't use most on Air conditioners and Mustangs or Camaros (teenage years), so they went into storage in a shed at my house...(2) big rolling chests...well, about 10 years ago, a tree fell on the shed and collapsed the rear roof....then to the ground...since it was at the edge of the woods, and the back of the roof was not visible from the house, I did not notice for months...when I opened the shed, the tool chests were full of water from the elements, everything in the shed was soaked (it was for storage not everyday use)...and a family of snakes was on top of the chests...I promptly closed the door (I am not a snake person), and fixed the roof, from the outside....that was (2) years ago...I opened the shed up last week and peeked inside (yes I moved, still own the house, rented it out)...everything is dry, saw no snakes (although I saw a "wolf" spider on the door the size of a Frisbee...no ****...)...so I called dad, and was talking to him about what he actually put in there...according to him, just about every tool needed (including a CIS kit) to work on an old German car is in those (2) chests...so, I am planning a tomb-raider-esque expedition on the shed, hopefully this weekend, to see what tools survived...if the chests are good and snake free, I am going to liberate them from their 13 years of storage and see what I gots...(I will be throwing about 5 bug bombs in there first!)...I am sure most are ruined from rust and rain, but some should be salvageable...wish I had cared a little more, since I had used a lot of those tools growing up...he was still working when I started my career, so I had all my own tools...Hindsight = 20/20
I have been reading the Bosch manuals, and multiple other threads...I found a great thread referencing a Ferrari site, that goes through the tear-down and rebuild of the WUR...looks ultra easy....and another document that shows how to disassemble, service, and re-gasket the fuel distributor...again, looks simple as pie....so I am considering both those routes...can't hurt given that this car sat 20 years, I did not expect her to fire at all at this stage....
Dumb question...where EXACTLY are the "little strainers/screens" everyone talks about on the WUR and distributor...I took loose the compression fittings at the fuel lines, and saw nothing....are they under the "banjo bolts" on the distributor head?
Again...ran a little tight on cash buying needed parts (to me anyway ), bought injectors, a removal tool, oil plug, bolt extractor set, oil and filter, CV boot kits, steering boots (don't know why I bought these boots right now...got caught up with the Pelican online order system I guess), fuel pump, clutch line (thanks again Brian), not to mention still collecting the wire and material for my workshop, none of this comes out of bill money, all side jobs, and computer work (did I mention I repair computers as a side business...have for 25 years...irrelevant tho')...trying to scrape up for the CIS pressure test kit...should be able to get it soon tho'...reversed my priorities a tad...
On a funny (or not) side note...my dad, as I mentioned before, a machinist by trade, was an auto mechanic for many years before I was born, and specialized in German cars, mostly VW-Audi-Benz...did tons of air cooled Porsche....when he retired, I got all his tools....I couldn't use most on Air conditioners and Mustangs or Camaros (teenage years), so they went into storage in a shed at my house...(2) big rolling chests...well, about 10 years ago, a tree fell on the shed and collapsed the rear roof....then to the ground...since it was at the edge of the woods, and the back of the roof was not visible from the house, I did not notice for months...when I opened the shed, the tool chests were full of water from the elements, everything in the shed was soaked (it was for storage not everyday use)...and a family of snakes was on top of the chests...I promptly closed the door (I am not a snake person), and fixed the roof, from the outside....that was (2) years ago...I opened the shed up last week and peeked inside (yes I moved, still own the house, rented it out)...everything is dry, saw no snakes (although I saw a "wolf" spider on the door the size of a Frisbee...no ****...)...so I called dad, and was talking to him about what he actually put in there...according to him, just about every tool needed (including a CIS kit) to work on an old German car is in those (2) chests...so, I am planning a tomb-raider-esque expedition on the shed, hopefully this weekend, to see what tools survived...if the chests are good and snake free, I am going to liberate them from their 13 years of storage and see what I gots...(I will be throwing about 5 bug bombs in there first!)...I am sure most are ruined from rust and rain, but some should be salvageable...wish I had cared a little more, since I had used a lot of those tools growing up...he was still working when I started my career, so I had all my own tools...Hindsight = 20/20
02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So,
now you are all caught up!
If you want to see all the in-between discussion, look at my threads on Pelican...I just could not double post all this stuff....
Final thoughts for today...I think my Distributor and WUR are gummed up. I blew the lines from the firewall back clean when I replaced the fuel lines...did nothing from the firewall forward....fuel lines had been disconnected for 20-years, so who knows...could be a nest of dead ladybugs in there somewhere...
I will remove the screens on the Fuel distributor and WUR, and replace the injectors, and see what I get...I am open to ANY other suggestions....wont get to play with it tonight...it is VD!!
now you are all caught up!
If you want to see all the in-between discussion, look at my threads on Pelican...I just could not double post all this stuff....
Final thoughts for today...I think my Distributor and WUR are gummed up. I blew the lines from the firewall back clean when I replaced the fuel lines...did nothing from the firewall forward....fuel lines had been disconnected for 20-years, so who knows...could be a nest of dead ladybugs in there somewhere...
I will remove the screens on the Fuel distributor and WUR, and replace the injectors, and see what I get...I am open to ANY other suggestions....wont get to play with it tonight...it is VD!!
02-14-2013, 04:19 PM
#87
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
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Nice, you've opened your very own time chest in those toolboxes. Kinda goes with the resurrection of your old beast. Cool.
There's no doubt a ton of crud built up in the fuel system. Certainly clean all the lines if you have it apart. Be careful with the wur, easy to fvck up, there's several write-ups here about refurbing them. Treat some fresh gas with berrymans then jumper the fuel pump relay, let it pump for several minutes. Put your hands on those k-jet fuel gauges and check your pressure(s). You tune these old beasts with a hammer... it's all about temp and pressure, none of those new-fangled computers doing the ciphering.
Keep up the great work! Cheers!!
There's no doubt a ton of crud built up in the fuel system. Certainly clean all the lines if you have it apart. Be careful with the wur, easy to fvck up, there's several write-ups here about refurbing them. Treat some fresh gas with berrymans then jumper the fuel pump relay, let it pump for several minutes. Put your hands on those k-jet fuel gauges and check your pressure(s). You tune these old beasts with a hammer... it's all about temp and pressure, none of those new-fangled computers doing the ciphering.
Keep up the great work! Cheers!!
02-14-2013, 05:46 PM
#89
Nordschleife Master
Very nice work Ron.
Not sure if you have it yet - but there are old and new versions of the Bosch Technical K-jet books available online:
Original 1974 edition:
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Bosch_Techn...K-Jetronic.pdf
Newer 2000 edition:
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/B...chtech-12d.pdf
Sounds to me like your cold-start enrichment isn't working hence you're having to manually force more fuel in?
Not sure if you have it yet - but there are old and new versions of the Bosch Technical K-jet books available online:
Original 1974 edition:
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Bosch_Techn...K-Jetronic.pdf
Newer 2000 edition:
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/B...chtech-12d.pdf
Sounds to me like your cold-start enrichment isn't working hence you're having to manually force more fuel in?
02-14-2013, 07:11 PM
#90
Drifting
Ron,
PM me if you want my cat, has under 60k miles, car ran great w/ it.
I won't need it in PA.
You can have it.
I think you're on to something now with the exhaust, probably is plugged with acorns.
My Father-in-Law is moving to NC from San Diego (retiring) in a few months, i will be able to visit..
Matt
PM me if you want my cat, has under 60k miles, car ran great w/ it.
I won't need it in PA.
You can have it.
I think you're on to something now with the exhaust, probably is plugged with acorns.
My Father-in-Law is moving to NC from San Diego (retiring) in a few months, i will be able to visit..
Matt