genikz

Thanks, Michael. We need to catch up soon.

Seat time is seat time. You don't learn car control by commenting on a forum. Since I work with the timing crew for auto-x events, they are free for me. I just bought a house and have a project '78 928. My budget doesn't currently allow for many track days, but I refuse to let my cars be paper weights.

If anybody wants to pay my track entry fees, my PayPal address is genikz@yahoo.com. Otherwise, keep you negative opinions about auto-x to yourself.

That being said, this thread needs to focus on the great 928 community. Porken drove this car all the way down from Oregon to my doorstep. Michael (MJ928) graciously donated the '78 928 project my way, and has helped me with 944 parts for years.

Now, what oil should I use for my first oil change?

James Bailey

The negatives to autocross really is just the limited amount of "track time" you get in a day, plus running on cold tires.....but any track time is good time Just that one day with POC equals maybe 15 days at an autocross.

genikz

I agree, BUT the limited runs actually teach you to learn a new course quickly and figure out how to be fast in very short order.

Auto-x has taught me:
-early vs. late apex
-smooth inputs
-proper hand position
-proper seating position
-looking ahead
-threshold braking
-left foot braking
-trail braking
-car control

All in a safe and comfortable environment. This experience is the only reason I feel comfortable pushing a car near the limits on track.

I have instructed numerous students over the years at PCA DEs and while many show very good improvement over the course of the day, they all plateau because pushing 10/10ths on a track in a street car is very scary without the proper skills. I, for one, don't want to learn car control at Fontana at 130+ mph going into NASCAR turn 1 and 2 in the car I need to drive home and then to work in.

We can agree to disagree, but either way we both get to have a ton of fun with our Porsche's as they were meant to be driven.

When I'm a little more flush, I'll continue to pursue my race license. I'm at the HPDE 3 level with NASA at the moment.

James Bailey

Interesting enough but Fontana 1-2 on the oval at 130 mph feels like you are on a straight.....the car feels nothing like it is turning or in a corner....just neutral and solid. Now braking down for the 90 degree left into the infield IS INTERESTING All good fun. I just wish more people would actually get out and drive their 928s it would get them over some of that Gran Tourismo crap and get them understanding that it is a sports car....

Speedtoys

Those are invented negatives.

AutoX and RR teach entirely different things. But they can be used with each other..to make the driver better overall.

A full season of weekly POC events, still makes a miserable AutoX rookie.

Subtle things of each apply to the other, neither substitutes...just in the way that ballroom dancing can make a great dancer in anything else more modern and edgy.

James Bailey

Good point lost in a sea of orange cones........where is the track Any track time is a plus .

Imo000

Autocrosses are better suited for small, low powered cars like Miatas and Civics. I've honed my winter driving skills in big empty parking lots. Any other car control needs more room. Autocrosses barely let you go past second gear.

mark kibort

all good points, but as jim says, there is no substitute for quality track time. there is just NO track time with autox. even if you get 10 runs, thats only about 10min of track time. And, there are breaks between runs, so no consitancy. sure, you learn a TON in those events , vs NOT doing them, but if you get to a real track, no cones, you learn much more , much more quickly. plus, autoX is so hard on the cars trannie and CV joints as welll as LSD and steering system.
Im not saying, go out to Fontana and cut loose your first time, but there are plenty of tracks that have a safe environment for DE, willow, short willow, buttonwillow, etc as welll as going with an instructor at fontana and just not hit the high speeds on the straights. heck, most of us all have done 100+ on a hyway since we have been in highschool. Its not like you are going to get up to 170mph and fly into the wall or something in a DE there.

mark kibort

thats true. I guess you have to know if you have good car control going into this game. many dont, but some do. nothing wrong with it, just making it a regular stop, takes away from what you can learn on a track making the car do what its designed to do!

I agree. its all good stuff. in fact, the tight turns on road courses can be a challenge for many good road racers because they dont go slow that often. all training is good! the only downside is the track time. if you need a tight track, buttonwillow and streets of willow, give a lot tighter track experience.

mark kibort

thats true. I guess you have to know if you have good car control going into this game. many dont, but some do. nothing wrong with it, just making it a regular stop, takes away from what you can learn on a track making the car do what its designed to do!

I agree. its all good stuff. in fact, the tight turns on road courses can be a challenge for many good road racers because they dont go slow that often. all training is good! the only downside is the track time. if you need a tight track, buttonwillow and streets of willow, give a lot tighter track experience.