86.5 Dual Disc Clutch Adjustment??
09-22-2012, 12:34 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Joel,
My money is on the fact that the original problem was the clutch MC rod being too long, but now you've got other issues. I think the TOB is usually the culprit when you've got that noise during clutch actuation but nothing when it's all the way in or out. I had that problem with mine when I first got it and almost all of my searches on here showed consensus was that that noise was the TOB.
You also said you had Colin's shifter installed now too, right? I'm not familiar with it, but is it possible that isn't adjusted properly or this this is part of the effects you're feeling now? Maybe go back to stock on the shifter until you get the rest ironed out and then convert?
FWIW- I've done one clutch twice so clearly I'm an expert on double-disc clutches...
My money is on the fact that the original problem was the clutch MC rod being too long, but now you've got other issues. I think the TOB is usually the culprit when you've got that noise during clutch actuation but nothing when it's all the way in or out. I had that problem with mine when I first got it and almost all of my searches on here showed consensus was that that noise was the TOB.
You also said you had Colin's shifter installed now too, right? I'm not familiar with it, but is it possible that isn't adjusted properly or this this is part of the effects you're feeling now? Maybe go back to stock on the shifter until you get the rest ironed out and then convert?
FWIW- I've done one clutch twice so clearly I'm an expert on double-disc clutches...
Thanks to all you guys for helping out!!
09-22-2012, 03:48 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
Ok due to the reduced leverage of my shifter design it prevents one from being able to force through the syncros. So yes the clutch etc has to be properly working.
You state that you have just been power bleeding, I have never gotten the air out of the system that way.
I find that you really must pull the piston out of the MC and tilt it back to let the air there escape.
Now you also state that when driving it gets worse, this indicates to me that your H adj are worn and are slipping causing clutch drag. A TOB with a failing bearing pack will make noise, but will NOT cause your clutch to drag, a failing/failed pilot bearing however will create drag and hold the input shaft and engine RPM. IMO you should remove the clutch, replace the pilot bearing as its a whole $6 part, and if you have a new TOB there, go ahead and install it. While it is out, you should fix the intermediate plate so that you will have no more issues with it. You can ship it to me and I will fix it so that you never need to adust or worry about it again if you dont feel the ability to do this yourself.
Then reinstall the clutch, make sure the hydraulics have the right movement as per the wsm, and test drive the car.
You state that you have just been power bleeding, I have never gotten the air out of the system that way.
I find that you really must pull the piston out of the MC and tilt it back to let the air there escape.
Now you also state that when driving it gets worse, this indicates to me that your H adj are worn and are slipping causing clutch drag. A TOB with a failing bearing pack will make noise, but will NOT cause your clutch to drag, a failing/failed pilot bearing however will create drag and hold the input shaft and engine RPM. IMO you should remove the clutch, replace the pilot bearing as its a whole $6 part, and if you have a new TOB there, go ahead and install it. While it is out, you should fix the intermediate plate so that you will have no more issues with it. You can ship it to me and I will fix it so that you never need to adust or worry about it again if you dont feel the ability to do this yourself.
Then reinstall the clutch, make sure the hydraulics have the right movement as per the wsm, and test drive the car.
09-22-2012, 05:07 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor
If you remove the clutch, be sure to look at the placement and orientation of the two friction disks. It is possible to install them incorrectly.
09-22-2012, 08:48 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ok due to the reduced leverage of my shifter design it prevents one from being able to force through the syncros. So yes the clutch etc has to be properly working.
You state that you have just been power bleeding, I have never gotten the air out of the system that way.
I find that you really must pull the piston out of the MC and tilt it back to let the air there escape.
Now you also state that when driving it gets worse, this indicates to me that your H adj are worn and are slipping causing clutch drag. A TOB with a failing bearing pack will make noise, but will NOT cause your clutch to drag, a failing/failed pilot bearing however will create drag and hold the input shaft and engine RPM. IMO you should remove the clutch, replace the pilot bearing as its a whole $6 part, and if you have a new TOB there, go ahead and install it. While it is out, you should fix the intermediate plate so that you will have no more issues with it. You can ship it to me and I will fix it so that you never need to adust or worry about it again if you dont feel the ability to do this yourself.
Then reinstall the clutch, make sure the hydraulics have the right movement as per the wsm, and test drive the car.
You state that you have just been power bleeding, I have never gotten the air out of the system that way.
I find that you really must pull the piston out of the MC and tilt it back to let the air there escape.
Now you also state that when driving it gets worse, this indicates to me that your H adj are worn and are slipping causing clutch drag. A TOB with a failing bearing pack will make noise, but will NOT cause your clutch to drag, a failing/failed pilot bearing however will create drag and hold the input shaft and engine RPM. IMO you should remove the clutch, replace the pilot bearing as its a whole $6 part, and if you have a new TOB there, go ahead and install it. While it is out, you should fix the intermediate plate so that you will have no more issues with it. You can ship it to me and I will fix it so that you never need to adust or worry about it again if you dont feel the ability to do this yourself.
Then reinstall the clutch, make sure the hydraulics have the right movement as per the wsm, and test drive the car.
The only REAL issue I'm having now is chatter with it in neutral / at idle - I tightened up the clutch pedal rod and it stopped (might be preloading the MC) - I'll have some of the 928BuckeyeLandSharks check it out for me to insure the rod is correctly adjusted. I already have the pilot & throwout bearing... cost is not the issue... just ask Roger ( I'm putting his kids through college Jacking up the car AGAIN and pulling the clutch is a PITA so I'm trying to eliminate the EASY stuff before I drop the clutch. But if it comes down to it, the clutch will come out and we'll see what we've got.One question I raised that no one has commented on: Could the Mobil One Synthetic tranny gear lube be tooo slippery for the syncros?? If so, would changing back to Petroleum based gear lube help with the syncros??
Thanks again to everyone who's helped to date!
09-22-2012, 08:59 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
I think that Greg Brown runs Mobil, but not sure if synthetic or not.
Personally I use Redline 75W90 NS and add one bottle of GM LSD additive, if box has LSD.
Personally I use Redline 75W90 NS and add one bottle of GM LSD additive, if box has LSD.
09-22-2012, 10:38 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
No LSD... unfortunately 
I've tried both Redline & Mobil One. The tranny likes to weep fluid with the Redline. Mobil One doesnt do this... other than that I havent noticed a big difference.
Anyway, a friend of mine believes the syncros may perform better with petroleum based gear lube since it is naturally thicker and not as slippery - especially if the syncros are a bit worn. The synthetic performs better but its not as thick and may actually inhibit the syncros from doing thier job... Synthetic probably wasnt around when these tranny's were designed - new & improved or more expensive doesnt always equate to better.
Any thoughts or experience, positive / negative, from you guys?
I've tried both Redline & Mobil One. The tranny likes to weep fluid with the Redline. Mobil One doesnt do this... other than that I havent noticed a big difference.Anyway, a friend of mine believes the syncros may perform better with petroleum based gear lube since it is naturally thicker and not as slippery - especially if the syncros are a bit worn. The synthetic performs better but its not as thick and may actually inhibit the syncros from doing thier job... Synthetic probably wasnt around when these tranny's were designed - new & improved or more expensive doesnt always equate to better.
Any thoughts or experience, positive / negative, from you guys?
12-04-2012, 04:54 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I've run into a snag... Getting parts together to replace the throw-out bearing. Noticed the part # on the brand new still in the freaking box TO bearing is different... The PET indicates an 86 TO bearing should be # 928 116 085 24. Looks like the one I have belongs to a MY91 car... # 928 116 085 05 or 08.
Will this TO bearing work on an 86.5 manual tranny...? or am I screwed...?
Will this TO bearing work on an 86.5 manual tranny...? or am I screwed...?
12-04-2012, 04:57 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Dual disc clutch TO bearing is NLA. You need to get a rebuilt unit. 928 Intl sells them with a core charge for your old one. The later model unit will not work.
12-04-2012, 05:01 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thats what I figured... Looks like I'll be posting this one for sale. Thanks!!
12-04-2012, 06:25 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Nope... new in the box, genuine, Porsche part... unfortunately the WRONG, genuine, Porsche part... Dumbass move on my part... didnt check part #s.
Dumbass move on my part... didnt check part #s.
12-04-2012, 07:09 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
there is a good reason the system can drag, and i just experienced it. if the ring clip on the T/0 bearing is worn and sinking into the T/O, the cluch will rattle around, vibrate and release unevenly (chatter)
that fact that you cant get it out of gear is puzzling though.weird!
anyway, sounds like you need to get in there. the MC and hydralics are not the issue here. sounds like your TO bearing is toast like mine was!
Mk
that fact that you cant get it out of gear is puzzling though.weird!
anyway, sounds like you need to get in there. the MC and hydralics are not the issue here. sounds like your TO bearing is toast like mine was!
Mk
12-05-2012, 12:06 AM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Mark, Yeah I'm in total agreement... its been a PITA but I now know whats NOT wrong
12-05-2012, 02:56 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
I dont think you can install them incorrectly, but you should make those weight lines (in white) line up opposite so that the discs are balanced.