Arnoud

Thanks to Rennlister's I received the info on how to prepare for dyno-run's on my "Roger box" (see: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...roger-box.html ), so today 10th August 2012 was the day to measure my car's baseline.

The dyno place I am using (and thanks towards Erkka for pointing our this place to me ) is having a dyno tester that measures straight on the wheel hubs, using this type of dyno: http://www.rototest.com/ - very nice stuff!

Connecting it all up:








The end result, run in 3rd gear:




About max torque at the wheels (snap-shot from taken video):


About max power at the wheels (snap-shot from taken video):


Near to max engine speed just before engine cut-off by LH (snap-shot taken from video):


Lots of values (yeah right, now you know why I do not write instruction books... ):


End result as per computer read-out:
- Max torque at the wheels: 399.8 Nm @ 3990 1/min (although both in the video and paper printout's I can find 402.4Nm @ 3990)
- Max power at the wheels: 191.1 KW (= 259.8 PS) @ 5670 1/min (although both in the video and paper printout's I can find 191.7 KW = 260.6 PS @ 5670)
- At the higher RPM range the AFM was seen as too rich.

When I talked with Erkka about this all he wondered if WOT was working correctly, as we both had expected a little bit more max power at the wheels (something in the range of 280-290 PS). And guess what: when I checked later today @ home, I found out that when flooring the go-fast paddle WOT is NOT seen...I simply till date had never checked that before
The good news for me is that the throttle sensor is working fine, because when I checked it manually from the the throttle quadrant all is working fine. So this is simply a matter of getting the wire cables at the throttle quadrant correctly set up.

Next dyno test day coming up in a few weeks time, during which I will:
- test one go-faster item and NOT have changed anything else, and then
- set up the throttle quadrant cables up correctly so to find back the extra 20+ ponies or so...

Till me next post, I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed my first testing day at a dyno-shop!

Vilhuer

This is one more data point what wrong info into LH and EZK causes same way as for example cam or knock sensor error. Also good reminder that having all systems work as designed is good idea.

Dyno setup is great. I'm not going back to roller dyno since this is available. No need to try to contain car on rollers and keep it from flying off to the wall etc.

JakeS2

I am going to rototest on the same day if Toni manages to squeeze my test run in.

IcemanG17

good numbers....however it appears your flappy is NOT working, hence the single torque peak....but 300ftlbs is quite good....you should get slightly MORE at the 1st peak around 3000rpm when the flappy is working..... 260whp is also well within the normal range

Mike Simard

I've seen those in the British mags and thought they were for serious F1 teams and such!

To not worry about tire slippage must be nice. The last time I went they had to fill the back of my car with sandbags, that's no way to live. Your setup is vastly better!

Vilhuer

Porsche factory uses same manufacturer dynos. Brian, good point about lower TQ peak missing. We missed that.

Lets see if Harri can get his GTS there also at same day. Every car which goes in needs to be checked before that all systems are working. All error codes read, flappy works and throttle position sensor setup is ok.

JakeS2

+1 on the error codes br:"just changed my hall sensor with engine mounted" :-)

Arnoud

Hi Brian,
Thanks for your info, good to know. It has been towards the end of last year 2011 that I have last tested my flappy with a test tool (it was all OK then), I will test it again in the days to come and report back here.

Hello Mike,
Yes: a very nice setup indeed´, no sandbags needed ! We are very lucky to have this type of dyno now around in the Helsinki area, with the owner who has a bit of a background in racing (a "small" understatement to write the least, see: http://www.toniruokonen.com/fin/06-fi_toniruokonen.htm ). So we get good honest measurement facts as well as no-nonsense advice.

Jake: Will be good to see the numbers your 5-speed S4 will produce.
Reminder to self: let's not forget to take earplugs with me, as your X-pipe without cats + RMB makes itself decently known from some distance !

Erkka: that is going to be one great upcoming dyno day , can't wait!

JakeS2

All and all I am not _that_ disappointed. We'll post figures up here soon but with confusion at the afr throug the whole chart 340 DIN hp is not that bad for 171k engine?

I'll be doing some post-mortem analysis before going for the rebuild, let's see what the compression tests reveal.

You forgot those tiny CS silencers... She's proud to be loud :-)

Cameraphone's video recording capabilities are easily tested when she is passing 6k rpm ; audio threshold of <x>Phone cannot record those levels...

Arnoud

Last week Friday 24th August was the time for a 2nd + 3rd run on that fabulous dyno, and apart from myself we also had JakeS2 attending with his S4 5 speed and Harri with his 1992 GTS Automatic.

Reason for my 2nd + 3rd run was having installed a local Finnish developed and manufactured X-pipe and checking out my WOT switch problem.
And once again I have to thank Erkka very much :
- first if all: for having steered the local Finnish developed and manufactured X-pipe (this is V2.0, final one will be V2.5 which will also have a small metal trip between the two cat's as per original factory "Teutonic" design), and
- secondly: helping me out with an "all-nighter wrench party", as it very much appeared that I needed another pair of hands (+ some additional tools).

Some background information on the local Finnish developed and manufactured X-pipe:
- Erkka's main item to get solved was to have no possibilities of any leaking from anywhere, hence it was all designed with the smallest possible tolerances for the pipe diameters.
- All is made in stainless steel.
- Cats are high-flow 200-cell race cats.

Overall view undersight of X-pipe:


Removing old cat's, passenger side:


Removing old cat's, driver side:


From here on it was definitely a 2-men / 4-pairs of hand type of job, as we had to remove the whole exhaust as one piece (an own lift like a MaxJax would be so nice to have...).
Passenger side of X-pipe attached:


Driver side of X-pipe attached:


Original NarrowBand o2-sensor put back, so that no other variable is changed for the dyno-run (a Wideband 02-sensor will be installed later on):


View from connection of X-pipe cat's to resonators (exceedingly tight fit, as wanted):


After all this "jada jada jada...", hereby the dyno-run raw numbers results, all these are measurements @ the wheels.
Dyno-run 01 of previous run of 10th August 2012, all factory:


Dyno-run 02, X-pipe:


Dyno-run 03, X-pipe and WOT switch working correctly now (just needed cable tidying @ throttle quadrant):


And graphs (not the clearest, I need to spread it a bit better still):


Conclusions:
- This X-pipe add's about 20 PS and 20-30 Nm
- Fixing WOT add's 5-10 PS and Nm.
- There is still a problem with my torque curve (and yes: the flappy valve is working correctly, we tested it just before these run's 2 + 3). I'm very much looking forward for any checks/improvement suggestions from you all so to further improve this (MAF, LH, EZK, ...)!

john gill

Hello All

Interesting thread , I noticed at the of the sheet in the last column , is a correection factor?

I am curious as to why this is ?

as this added into the mix of the measured torque will skew the reults?

I own the other style of dyno(Dynapack) that is the hub type and I concur that the portability and repeatability of use is outstanding .

Arnoud

Hello John,

Having read your company web-pages and a bit of background info on the Dynapack, that is a very nice solution too. And your http://www.emtec.net.au/928GT_engine.html web-page made for a very interesting read, thank you for having documented that.

According to the Rototest Research Institute, the correction factor is explained by them as per link: http://www.rri.se/index.php?DN=28#130

Corrections of measured Powertrain Performance™

Engine maximum output is often dependent of ambient conditions, such as atmospheric pressure, (higher pressure more power) inlet temperature (lower temperature more power) and air relative humidity (less humidity more power). These parameters are almost impossible to make constant during laboratory tests. Because of that there are standards for correction of the atmospheric conditions. There are several standards for correction of engine performance in the "automotive society". DIN 70020, (Deutsches Institut für Normung) ISO 1585, (International Organization for Standardization) etc.

NOTE!
All standard corrections give approximate results. According to the ISO 1585 standard, corrections for inlet temperature are restricted between +15° to +35°C. Non-corrected measurements values must be present in any presentation of Powertrain Performance™ results. This is an important quality factor to allow others to judge the significance of the presented corrections.

NOTE!
Modern computer controlled engines have the possibility to self-correct for ambient conditions (increase, decrease power). This is especially true for forced induction (turbo, compressor, etc) equipped engines where the boost can be controlled to absolute levels (instead of relative). Applying a correction on engines with a self-correction feature is incorrect and not allowed depending on which standard that is used.

john gill

Thanks for that ARnoud ,

I will follow up that information , but normally correction is done by the ecu as it is a closed loop system, by correcting it externally you adding additional numbers to muddy the waters .
My project car pages are a bit old now and need upgrading as I have spun several sets of bearings after competing in the local club champoinships , I have since installed part of the greg brown oil scavenge system , for the multi valve heads with some high compression pistons , and hopefully this week will be back in the dyno to see what the result is .
So much fun having a dyno to experiment with .

Thanks .

JakeS2

Here is a comparison dynochart from my S4. Taken at the same place. Factors why I post it here are
- this is done with manual gearbox
- I have another type of X-Over
- my rear muffler is type 0928-RMB

As you can see it's peaking at 208,6kW at the rear axle so based on calculations we are looking at 340 hp at the crank?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvihrial/7961145480/

Hilton

Looks about right

My '89 S4 manual, stock except for an X-pipe only, put down 207kW at the rear wheels, on a dyno-dynamics dyno.