PC-85-928S

I have ordered most of the parts I need for a top end refresh.
I still need a few more.
I was going to let my mechanic do it, but I think I really want to do it myself.
I know I want to clean and detail under the hood.

I have read Mike Frye's Top END REFRESH GUIDE about 10 times.

My only conserns are removing the bolts sucessfully, doing the fuel lines, and the re-installation of the cam gasket and cover.

I don't think I am going to mess with the water bridge, or pull off the throttle body if possible.

I guess the fuel rail have to come off to remove the intake runners.

any advice appreciated.

also where is sealant like honda lube applied?

since i am not messing with the water bridge, do I have to drain all coolant?

Jchiodi

I just started on my early 86. Probably the same as yours. Don't think I'll do the valve cover though.

I've just got the fuel rails and injectors out last night! Problems I've run into so far is that the Previous Owners mechanic mis-routed wiring, and some vac lines (pretty sure), causing a lot of stress in the wiring harness and sensor connections, and vacuum lines! Also, some things overdone, like melting the injector plugs over the little wire U clip, I guess in an effort to keep them from coming off?

Found some un plugged connectors also! Lovely. Not even sure what this one (pic) is. The other end goes to top of back end of engine, where the torque converter would be on a normal car. thought it was crank reference sensor, but car runs, so it's not that!

But all in all, so far so good. I would check that waterbridge area carefully, on mine I can see coolant leak, so I'm doing it, but no need to drain if not.

BTW, do you do much research on parts/costs. Still doing mine since I know it will be a little while before she's back together

Good luck, and keep posting so I don't have to sound like a newbie all by myself. .lol
jc

Lizard928

JC,

That is for a TDC sensor, it was only used with a special VW tool which as of yet, I dont believe anyone has ever even seen......

PorKen

Note you will most likely have to replace some or all of the throttle body/MAF housing mounts (buffers). They are always broken, or about to break.

(2) 928 110 191 00 bonded rubber buffer
(1) 928 110 191 03 bonded rubber buffer

JHowell37

The empty plug in your picture is nothing. Seriously. It serves no functional purpose.

On the intake manifolds I used Permatex Copper Spray-a-gasket on both sides of the gasket. It aids in sealing, but it also puts a barrier between the gasket and the mating surfaces. That way, if I have to remove it for some reason, the gasket usually comes off in one piece, with little or no scraping to remove the rest.

The cam cover bolts can be a little tricky on the '85. Heed this advice and you'll be fine:
When you remove the bolts, they should get more and more loose as they come out (like any bolt.) Pay attention as you remove them. If a bolt starts to tighten up noticeably as it's coming out, STOP and go to the next bolt. The bolts are a two piece design, an upper that screws into a lower, that screws into the head. If the bolts get tight as you remove them, chances are the upper bolt is stuck in the lower bolt, and you're actually removing the lower. It's getting tight because the lower bolt is pressing up against the cam cover as it comes out. If you persist, you can break either bolt, and the last thing you want, is to break a bolt while it's still threaded into the cylinder head. So if you leave the stuck bolt until last, you can then remove it and it will left the cam cover with it. When you get the cam cover out with the bolt(s) still in it, you can put wrenches on both and go to town. Chances are, you'll break them. That's not really a big deal at that point. Just order a replacement. I saw this happen 3 times on the last '85 engine I pulled the cam covers from. I did as described and got all the bolts out without breaking one in the head.

In my case, the cause appeared to be cross threading of the upper bolts into the lowers. This was the likely result of someone using a wrench to get the bolt started when installing the cam cover. When working on anything, especially when putting steel bolts into aluminum, ALWAYS start the bolts with your hand to make certain they aren't cross threaded.

If you're not going to touch the water bridge, you don't have to drain the coolant.

Get a set of picks to remove the retaining wires that are on most of the connectors. Be especially careful with the three terminal connectors as they seem most prone to breaking.

The injectors are going to be very tight. They're secured at the base by thick o-rings that get very hard and don't want to move after 25+ years.

76FJ55

If you are thinking of renewing the injector I would consider the Ford Racing injectors. they're available for about the same cost as having the originals cleaned, but they are the newer 4 hole disc type, which, I believe have better flow pattern and control. You will most likely have to add a groove for the retaining clip, but it is fairly easy. The Ford o-rings are the correct size for the 85-86.5 cars. the later 87+ cars require different o-rings. the 85-86.5 cars require 24# injectors.

jacal128

Take her all the way down and clean the valley, I've done both of mine 86 and 86.5 very easy while you are there. The water bridge was easy also just make sure you chase the threads on reassembly.

Jchiodi

Ialso plan on doing some upgrades. The adjustable fuel pressure reg. And upgrading the injectors, if itwill really make a difference. Later this winter, as buget allows, possible chip and exhaust upgrade, as long as it will still sound as cool!

Will the AFPR work well with those Ford injectors? Best place to buy?

Jc
Btw, thanks for the info on that connector

76FJ55

Get a FPR from an 87, 55psi instead of the stock 35psi. then get the Porken chips.

Roger at 928srus.com can supply the correct Ford injectors at a good price. you may be able to find a slightly cheaper price by searching but you can't beat Rogers service.

Roger also sells the X-pipes for the 85+ cars which perform and sound great.

For the FPR the annual 928 international used parts sale will be here in December.

All these integrate well and work great as a system including the ford or stock injectors.

Mike Frye

PC,
If you need anything or get stuck just drop me a PM or send up a thread. LOTS of S3 gurus on here.
Take your time and when you get in there you may be tempted to just keep going and do the water bridge and cam covers as well. Once you get that far into it, you might as well go the rest of the way. The materials are not that expensive and you'll feel better with the piece of mind of knowing it's all clean, new and torqued properly (probably the biggest reason why the cam covers leak or the bolts break is improper or uneven torquing).

This is a perfect description of the proper way to deal with this (and why). I figured this out while I was doing mine as well, but never thought to describe it that way. (I also had to sacrifice 3 or 4 of these 'two-piece' bolts during the process too).

JHowell, do you mind if I add this to my write-up?

WICruiser

When I did mine I did pulled the coolant bridge and oil fill/breather but did not do the valve covers. In hind sight I should have because now I am finding a lot of excuses why I don't want to go back and do the valve covers.

In my case I powder coated the intake parts, coolant bridge, oil fill etc. so everyting I oulled off was clean and fresh going back together.

I agree with Porken about the throttle body mounts, mine were all sheared off and because I wasn't sure what they were suppose to look like it took a while to sort out what was wrong.

Take pictures of everything before you take things apart because after a few weeks/months it can really be hard to recall exactly what was where. They can also help identify thing the PO may have done incorrectly.

It is not a mechanically challenging job to do, just take your time and do it yourself. You will be much happier with the end result.

PC-85-928S

Can anyone describe the correct torque procedure for the cam covers

Podguy

You guys were lucky with the cam cover stand offs. I tried to pull a couple of standoffs once the cover was off and still broke them on removal.

Do the cam timing and check the cam chain tensioner and teeth in the on the cams. The teeth can snap off and the tensioner pad wears. I used HyLoMar from BMW on the oil pan gasket and other parts. Of course now there are silicon gaskets.

Another reason to do the cam covers are the gaskets around the spark plug holes and the o-rings.

Mike Frye

I don't think there's anything tricky about torquing the cam covers except that you have to use the specified torque values. The heads are larger (13mm maybe) but since it's a two-piece bolt the threaded bolt part is much smaller and I think most people just do it by 'feel' and using a 13mm bolt as their guide. This cross threads or overtorques them and causes the problems.

According to this thread the torque spec for the cam cover bolts is 7ft/lbs or 10nm. That's not much at all.


Also, there is a set of really thin washers that need to go on there as well, according to a TSB, so even if yours don't have the washers in there when you pull them, you should install them when it's replaced.

These washers add just that small amount of extra pressure all around the cam cover to keep it from leaking without increasing the torque value.

Podguy

Actually other than breaking the bolts or stripping the head you cannot over tighten the bolts. The bolts are designed with a shoulder that mates against the head on the newer style and the stand off on the older covers. The shoiuder defines the distance and pressure of the covers against the head.

Putting on the covers is not like torquing a head, but working at opposite ends and sides is probably a good idea. On the old style bolts put some never seize on the threads. This will prevent the bolts from seizing and breaking off the stand offs the next time the cover is removed.

Oh I forgot to mention getting them off in the car means removing the left rear engine hoist loop. You only get a quarter turn even with an S wrench but it can be done. Without removing the loop there is no way to get the cover out of the engine compartment.