S4 Budge stroke engine build question??
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: NY
Someone else that is using a Moldex crank.They are one of the best out there.
They been in business for over 40 years and when it comes to custom crankshafts
they seem to be able to build anything you need.
They been in business for over 40 years and when it comes to custom crankshafts
they seem to be able to build anything you need.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,675
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From: TEXAS
If you look at older Stroker threads posted over the past 3 years, Greg B, clearly says the same thing about the SCAT cranks. Their soft and should not be used.
Jerry,
Why do you think he said anything about your SCAT crank at the first place? Was he trying to make you look dumb for buying them? Or was he trying to give you some advise so that you don't learn a very expensive lesson?
I understand the frustration that you spend ~$3600 on 2 crank shafts that could be useless. I too have lost large amounts of money in this hobby from people not being honest.
I would take Greg's advice.
Jerry,
Why do you think he said anything about your SCAT crank at the first place? Was he trying to make you look dumb for buying them? Or was he trying to give you some advise so that you don't learn a very expensive lesson?
I understand the frustration that you spend ~$3600 on 2 crank shafts that could be useless. I too have lost large amounts of money in this hobby from people not being honest.
I would take Greg's advice.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,765
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From: Atlanta
When I was at my machinist's shop, while they were checking out the Scat crank I talked about (where the crank wore, but the rod bearings did not), they were poking fun at this particular crankshaft. At first, they simply thought that the crank had missed nitrating, but they tested the surface and foud out that it had, indeed, been nitrated.
So yes, it's possible to cheaply nitrite by not leaving it in long and still calling it nitrited but it would be meaningless and be polished off.
These are the kinds of things I could absolutley see happeing in China. If you're the guy in charge of ordering the material or running the nitriting bath, are you going to effectively shut down production and the influx of American dollars because you don't have chrome-moly steel or enough time to soak all the parts for 8 hours? No, you really wouldn't want to be that guy in China.
Do you think the massive output of China is becasue they always have the proper materials and time to perform all the steps?
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From: Up Nort
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Anaheim
Actually it's worse than that. Nitriting takes many hours and it's not a matter of being nitrited or not. The longer it's in the deeper the hardness. Nitriting can be a significant cost and use of resources if done properly for a good depth.
So yes, it's possible to cheaply nitrite by not leaving it in long and still calling it nitrited but it would be meaningless and be polished off.
These are the kinds of things I could absolutley see happeing in China. If you're the guy in charge of ordering the material or running the nitriting bath, are you going to effectively shut down production and the influx of American dollars because you don't have chrome-moly steel or enough time to soak all the parts for 8 hours? No, you really wouldn't want to be that guy in China.
Do you think the massive output of China is becasue they always have the proper materials and time to perform all the steps?
So yes, it's possible to cheaply nitrite by not leaving it in long and still calling it nitrited but it would be meaningless and be polished off.
These are the kinds of things I could absolutley see happeing in China. If you're the guy in charge of ordering the material or running the nitriting bath, are you going to effectively shut down production and the influx of American dollars because you don't have chrome-moly steel or enough time to soak all the parts for 8 hours? No, you really wouldn't want to be that guy in China.
Do you think the massive output of China is becasue they always have the proper materials and time to perform all the steps?
I, personally, can't tell differences in metal, by looking at it.
It's a moot point. I'm not using Scat cranks and have none of them in any of my engines. I've got a 'few" Big Block Chevys and Big Block Fords that I've built for my own use. None of them have anything but "American Steel" machined by "American Experts" for crankshafts and connecting rods.
Since I've already been called a "liar" twice on this thread, I'm not going to bother telling everyone about the "other" 928 Scat cranks I've had....or about my neighbor's Pontiac Scat crank.
It comes down to this: I believe that 99% of the time, one gets what they pay for.
Certainly, people get "ripped" off....but they can hardly go wrong when buying Sonny Bryant, Calles, Carrillo, Moldex, etc.
And here's how I live my life: I'm only going to use and sell the very best pieces I can buy.
There's been enough "stroked" 928 engines fail to last everyone a lifetime, already....the success ratio is very poor.
Proving you are smart enough to build another one doesn't say much to me.
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OK ...." Moldex crank.They are one of the best out there.
They been in business for over 40 years and when it comes to custom crankshafts
they seem to be able to build anything you need."
Perhaps more accurate to state they can build most anything YOU TELL THEM TO BUILD ! They are not going to design a crank for you but can make you a "copy" of what they have done before.....for someone else. But yes materials and machining quality, workmanship is high; delivery schedules often get pushed back as they take care of their big customers.....
Many years ago a well know machine shop/crank "expert" known for VW engines was quite willing to grind off and knife edge the counterweights on a 928 Crankshaft.......like he did on the hotrod flat 4 engines. When it then went to another shop for balancing with the rods and pistons it was painfully clear that so much material was removed that no amount of heavy metal was going to allow that crank to EVER run !!!! Knowing what to build, what specifications are needed and how all the variables add up is often the result of experience. Those lessons in life often come at a price, time, labor, money.
Sadly some people for one reason or another seem to want to walk down the same path which others have followed and make some of the very same mistakes........ However rather than calling someone a LIAR, I submit perhaps it is best to simply say, I have not proven that yet and need to try it myself.
They been in business for over 40 years and when it comes to custom crankshafts
they seem to be able to build anything you need."
Perhaps more accurate to state they can build most anything YOU TELL THEM TO BUILD ! They are not going to design a crank for you but can make you a "copy" of what they have done before.....for someone else. But yes materials and machining quality, workmanship is high; delivery schedules often get pushed back as they take care of their big customers.....
Many years ago a well know machine shop/crank "expert" known for VW engines was quite willing to grind off and knife edge the counterweights on a 928 Crankshaft.......like he did on the hotrod flat 4 engines. When it then went to another shop for balancing with the rods and pistons it was painfully clear that so much material was removed that no amount of heavy metal was going to allow that crank to EVER run !!!! Knowing what to build, what specifications are needed and how all the variables add up is often the result of experience. Those lessons in life often come at a price, time, labor, money.
Sadly some people for one reason or another seem to want to walk down the same path which others have followed and make some of the very same mistakes........ However rather than calling someone a LIAR, I submit perhaps it is best to simply say, I have not proven that yet and need to try it myself.
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Jim I agree with you. I had some tell me that there is no way I could get variocam to work in a 928 engine.... some even went so far to call me a poser and one person even told me that anyone could fasten on a 968 cam cover and make it "look like" variocam.... I got it to run for years and put about 25K hard hard miles on it....
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Anaheim
I can tell you this much....if you call Carrillo and ask them for a Chevy rod for a 928 engine....they will not sell it to you...there's a rather big note about not doing this, in their computer. (They also will not sell you my rod.) One can give them specifications and they will build you a custom rod for use in your 928.
Carrillo stepped up and did a really extensive study on the loads that occur with the incorrect offset....it is absolutely amazing to see what the 'side" thrust loads on the cylinder walls are, with the incorrect offset.
Carrillo is a great company to work with and a pleasaure to do business with.
Carrillo stepped up and did a really extensive study on the loads that occur with the incorrect offset....it is absolutely amazing to see what the 'side" thrust loads on the cylinder walls are, with the incorrect offset.
Carrillo is a great company to work with and a pleasaure to do business with.
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From: 2706 Skyline Drive, Grand Junction CO 81506
I am pretty sure you are a very good wrench and have a lot to contribute when listers have any number of problems, but this post by you seems to suggest you have some kind of hart on for me that I don't understand. Maybe we can talk about it at 3rd coast in the next couple of weeks.
Jerry Feather
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From: 2706 Skyline Drive, Grand Junction CO 81506
However, I do not recall anything in the discourse we had about your damaged car that I was offended by. What is that about? Are you just making something up to try to make a point that you cannot otherwise make?
Jerry Feather
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From: 2706 Skyline Drive, Grand Junction CO 81506
Tell me exactly what you think is wrong with what I have had to contribute on the thread, or any other for that matter.
I know there is a lot of credible authority on this forum about what members and users are interested in, but when the supposed authority seem to be so self serving, as in this case, I think it deserves to be challenged, even in the face of you and some of the others deferring to some kind of seniority or supposed authority based solely on how many posts one might have.
Why is it that my attitude needs to be eased up on? I am simply asking why in respect to the others' attitudes toward what I have had to post.
Jerry Feather
Rest in Peace
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From: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Jerry, that was not my car, and I did not post that, I was the one that said it was damaged.
BTW, just because you do not remember, which it is VERY clear you do not, does not change a thing.
Yes, my rear fenders are flared, but only because I cut the S4 fenders off and put GTS ones on.
You got all bent out of shape at me when I said you should use a mig to repair rust damage.
How about when Tom used a common term, Jerry Rigged and you once again got all bent out of shape, said you were going to start calling things Greggy rigged?
I really thought that one was funny.
How many times has some one here posted that you have a problem.
I can think of several times that you have said you were offended and I can think of several times that folks have said you have problems or ask what your problem was.
You have issues dude.
BTW, just because you do not remember, which it is VERY clear you do not, does not change a thing.
Yes, my rear fenders are flared, but only because I cut the S4 fenders off and put GTS ones on.
You got all bent out of shape at me when I said you should use a mig to repair rust damage.
How about when Tom used a common term, Jerry Rigged and you once again got all bent out of shape, said you were going to start calling things Greggy rigged?
I really thought that one was funny.
How many times has some one here posted that you have a problem.
I can think of several times that you have said you were offended and I can think of several times that folks have said you have problems or ask what your problem was.
You have issues dude.
That's funny, Greg. As I recall you posted pictures of how your 928 frame aft of the rear crossmember mounting point is severly bent and then asked what that might mean. Then I told you that your frame is bent and that your rear fenders are flared as a result. The has apparently pissed you off. I know that the truth hurts sometimes, but is does not chage the truth. I know that you are unable to see the flare in your rear wheel wells that was caused by the rearend collision that bent your frame, but it is all there.
However, I do not recall anything in the discourse we had about your damaged car that I was offended by. What is that about? Are you just making something up to try to make a point that you cannot otherwise make?
Jerry Feather
However, I do not recall anything in the discourse we had about your damaged car that I was offended by. What is that about? Are you just making something up to try to make a point that you cannot otherwise make?
Jerry Feather
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To Sean whats-your-face: What are you putting your dog in this fight for. Just what do you have to contribute about the subject of this discussion about building a stroker on a budget that might be useful to the OP or even to me for that matter?
I am pretty sure you are a very good wrench and have a lot to contribute when listers have any number of problems, but this post by you seems to suggest you have some kind of hart on for me that I don't understand. Maybe we can talk about it at 3rd coast in the next couple of weeks.
Jerry Feather
I am pretty sure you are a very good wrench and have a lot to contribute when listers have any number of problems, but this post by you seems to suggest you have some kind of hart on for me that I don't understand. Maybe we can talk about it at 3rd coast in the next couple of weeks.
Jerry Feather
Prove Greg wrong instead of being an ******* to him. He's giving you the best advice you are going to get. It's no ones fault but your own if you don't take it and blow the money elsewhere.
As far as my contribution to this discussion, I have none except to say it's best to take the advice of those who have done it before, and not go the route of those that have failed, doing exactly what you are about to do.
Rest in Peace
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From: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Yes, I already know that, but what is your point. Sean has offered nothing in this thread to help the Op about his budget stroker build; and blown87 has offered nothing but ctiticism of me in support of the same theme. Then I seem to come across as the *** whole who has the audasity to challenge some of the supposed authority on the forum for a lack of credibility and/or integrity.
Tell me exactly what you think is wrong with what I have had to contribute on the thread, or any other for that matter.
I know there is a lot of credible authority on this forum about what members and users are interested in, but when the supposed authority seem to be so self serving, as in this case, I think it deserves to be challenged, even in the face of you and some of the others deferring to some kind of seniority or supposed authority based solely on how many posts one might have.
Why is it that my attitude needs to be eased up on? I am simply asking why in respect to the others' attitudes toward what I have had to post.
Jerry Feather
Tell me exactly what you think is wrong with what I have had to contribute on the thread, or any other for that matter.
I know there is a lot of credible authority on this forum about what members and users are interested in, but when the supposed authority seem to be so self serving, as in this case, I think it deserves to be challenged, even in the face of you and some of the others deferring to some kind of seniority or supposed authority based solely on how many posts one might have.
Why is it that my attitude needs to be eased up on? I am simply asking why in respect to the others' attitudes toward what I have had to post.
Jerry Feather
You jump on my friends, call them liars and then say you have some thing constructive to say, guess I missed that part.
People that know some things you don't are trying to help you, or were trying to, pretty sure you are on your own now.