'86.5 5-speed, 321 rwhp (std)
05-11-2012, 08:46 AM
#61
Craic Head
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I have to figure out something for the airbox...no lid, but cool air.
Funny, as this was one of the first things I posted about on Rennlist (10 years ago).
The AFR was the same w/o the airbox lid, so it wasn't a turbulence issue, or a leaning out, it was just a lack of air. Also evidenced by the overall gain from 2K to 6.5K.
Funny, as this was one of the first things I posted about on Rennlist (10 years ago).
The AFR was the same w/o the airbox lid, so it wasn't a turbulence issue, or a leaning out, it was just a lack of air. Also evidenced by the overall gain from 2K to 6.5K.
HINT: Check my sig.
When you get the manual version of the Black Edition ready, let me know. I just borrowed Adam's cam timing tool, I'm going to need a bump stick and then I'll be ready.
Actually the 93 octane I've been on for a couple of years is killing me, so if I could drop to 87 and get more power I'd be all over it.
05-11-2012, 01:04 PM
#62
Inventor
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Mike - X-pipe is not absolutely necessary, but you won't get the same gains w/o it (same w/airbox).
Mike - what's nice about this big retard is the low octane requirement, plus (pun intended), you can always go up in octane if you can only adjust to -10°, or ping for some reason.
I thought it felt like a supercharger when I hit the kickdown switch...turns out it was! 40+>6K (20+ peak) more rwhp sae...am I the only one who is excited?
Mike - what's nice about this big retard is the low octane requirement, plus (pun intended), you can always go up in octane if you can only adjust to -10°, or ping for some reason.
I thought it felt like a supercharger when I hit the kickdown switch...turns out it was! 40+>6K (20+ peak) more rwhp sae...am I the only one who is excited?
475hp/460lb.ft
05-11-2012, 05:23 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Ken,
I was going to install the s300 chips next week. Should I hold off and send these back for the black edition (auto)? What do you recommend? I still have cats on this car.
Mike
I was going to install the s300 chips next week. Should I hold off and send these back for the black edition (auto)? What do you recommend? I still have cats on this car.
Mike
05-11-2012, 07:02 PM
#66
Race Car
Mike - X-pipe is not absolutely necessary, but you won't get the same gains w/o it (same w/airbox).
Mike - what's nice about this big retard is the low octane requirement, plus (pun intended), you can always go up in octane if you can only adjust to -10°, or ping for some reason.
I thought it felt like a supercharger when I hit the kickdown switch...turns out it was! 40+>6K (20+ peak) more rwhp sae...am I the only one who is excited?
Mike - what's nice about this big retard is the low octane requirement, plus (pun intended), you can always go up in octane if you can only adjust to -10°, or ping for some reason.
I thought it felt like a supercharger when I hit the kickdown switch...turns out it was! 40+>6K (20+ peak) more rwhp sae...am I the only one who is excited?
I'm looking forward to some additional physics and some excuse for the original engineers....
05-11-2012, 07:03 PM
#67
Race Car
And I see post #46...so it's better cylinder filling....compensating for low lift and undersized intake valves?
Last edited by SMTCapeCod; 05-11-2012 at 07:27 PM.
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
#68
Aside from the octane, what difference in performance is there between a -10 and -12 retard with the Black chips? What would bar getting the cams to -12 retard?
I've been reading up the cam timing thread and from what I'm getting is that at such a high cam retard, the "negative" effects of retarding (lower TQ and HP all around) are null and hetter performance is actually achieved? Is that right?
I've been reading up the cam timing thread and from what I'm getting is that at such a high cam retard, the "negative" effects of retarding (lower TQ and HP all around) are null and hetter performance is actually achieved? Is that right?
05-11-2012, 09:59 PM
#69
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The factory wanted XXX HP, XXX TQ at XXXX RPM, with a certain emission standard, in all types of conditions. 10:1 compression goes with the S3 long duration cams. (Long duration bleeds off compression.) Even with the smallish valves, it's apparent that the S3 could have easily been rated 300 HP (vs. 288) with a little more cam.
It idles fine, but it's not rock steady like at 0°. Not sure how it would perform with a more restrictive exhaust, at the stock fuel pressure (36 psi), etc.
Between -10° and -12° should not be a big change. Different belt, engine, gear combinations may not be able to adjust to -14° cold on the 1-4 side (but most should, I figure).
It idles fine, but it's not rock steady like at 0°. Not sure how it would perform with a more restrictive exhaust, at the stock fuel pressure (36 psi), etc.
Between -10° and -12° should not be a big change. Different belt, engine, gear combinations may not be able to adjust to -14° cold on the 1-4 side (but most should, I figure).
05-11-2012, 11:23 PM
#70
Race Car
I'm not too worried aobut idle! When I had my 04 GTO many folks (most with grey hair) opted in for the tunes that were actually mis-tuned at idle but added a nice lope. More variables in that system though.
Net on that was haul out fuel at WOT and gain 20-30 HP, but not much to be done with ignition timing.
Actually....I don't care about idle except that I do want it to start when it's cold out...
Net on that was haul out fuel at WOT and gain 20-30 HP, but not much to be done with ignition timing.
Actually....I don't care about idle except that I do want it to start when it's cold out...
05-12-2012, 12:02 AM
#71
Nordschleife Master
I dont know about the stock S3 or S4/GT/GTS cams at that retard.
But when I run my high perf cams at 8 deg of retard I get under higher load at low rpm (only detectable when going up a mountain pass) a slight hesitation below 2800 rpm....
But when I run my high perf cams at 8 deg of retard I get under higher load at low rpm (only detectable when going up a mountain pass) a slight hesitation below 2800 rpm....
05-12-2012, 09:11 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
I have an 86.5 / S3 which Ken has chipped to death - thank you by the way - and it runs like a raped ape Standard exhaust with both cats, no X Pipe (yet), both intermediates and a RMB. I'm sure I could get more HP out of her if I ran straight pipes with the X pipe, but the HIGH decibels inside the cabin kinda suck as I drive my car A LOT - 12K miles in 6 months And, yes the torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants and the back of your neck when you tromp on the go fast peddle The increased HP - not so much. Unfortunately, I've never driven an S4 or GT, etc, so I have nothing to compare it with... 
For now, I'll just have to settle for LUDICROUS SPEED 
Standard exhaust with both cats, no X Pipe (yet), both intermediates and a RMB. I'm sure I could get more HP out of her if I ran straight pipes with the X pipe, but the HIGH decibels inside the cabin kinda suck as I drive my car A LOT - 12K miles in 6 months And, yes the torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants and the back of your neck when you tromp on the go fast peddle The increased HP - not so much. Unfortunately, I've never driven an S4 or GT, etc, so I have nothing to compare it with... For now, I'll just have to settle for LUDICROUS SPEED
05-12-2012, 09:19 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
It wont let me upload the ^%$#@! chart... I'll try again. BTW... those #s were at the rear wheels 
I'll try again. BTW... those #s were at the rear wheels
05-12-2012, 10:46 PM
#75
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Joel - if you can, have the dyno place email you/me the DRF files for your runs. (info@liftbars.com - you can email me your scan to post, if you like.)
The stock cats are a limiter, but even so, I would expect a 5-speed to get a little higher HP. Good TQ. Stock belt fan? Have you ever checked the cam timing?
There are some tricks to getting consistent dyno runs. I will post a pic of how I dyno my cars. If you just strap it on and go, the intake often heats up too much, so you get a lot of retard.
The stock cats are a limiter, but even so, I would expect a 5-speed to get a little higher HP. Good TQ. Stock belt fan? Have you ever checked the cam timing?
There are some tricks to getting consistent dyno runs. I will post a pic of how I dyno my cars. If you just strap it on and go, the intake often heats up too much, so you get a lot of retard.