'86.5 5-speed, 321 rwhp (std)
#46
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The extra performance comes from the late intake valve closing, but that lowers the effective compression ratio, thus making 87 octane preferable.
With ethanol, you could make a torque monster by advancing the cam timing. I don't think you can get big HP without a turbo/supercharger with ethanol, though.
#47
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Self control? ![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
PKT for safe high rpm bursts.
Intake refreshed, X-pipe, NGK non-resistor plugs.
Autos need a couple turns tighter than stock Bowden cable adjustment.
The auto version is done. I just haven't had time to update the website for the 'Black Edition'.
It may be a few weeks before I can finish the 87 octane version for the manual. Until I finish the tank, I'm running a 92 version with an unnecessarily large amount of ignition advance. (Best to have as little ign. advance as possible.)
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
PKT for safe high rpm bursts.
Intake refreshed, X-pipe, NGK non-resistor plugs.
Autos need a couple turns tighter than stock Bowden cable adjustment.
The auto version is done. I just haven't had time to update the website for the 'Black Edition'.
It may be a few weeks before I can finish the 87 octane version for the manual. Until I finish the tank, I'm running a 92 version with an unnecessarily large amount of ignition advance. (Best to have as little ign. advance as possible.)
#49
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All the major euro makes have Black Edition cars, too. (Porsche included.)
I confess to reading too many sites like - http://www.gtspirit.com/
I confess to reading too many sites like - http://www.gtspirit.com/
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#50
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Self control? ![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
PKT for safe high rpm bursts.
Intake refreshed, X-pipe, NGK non-resistor plugs.
Autos need a couple turns tighter than stock Bowden cable adjustment.
The auto version is done. I just haven't had time to update the website for the 'Black Edition'.
It may be a few weeks before I can finish the 87 octane version for the manual. Until I finish the tank, I'm running a 92 version with an unnecessarily large amount of ignition advance. (Best to have as little ign. advance as possible.)
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
PKT for safe high rpm bursts.
Intake refreshed, X-pipe, NGK non-resistor plugs.
Autos need a couple turns tighter than stock Bowden cable adjustment.
The auto version is done. I just haven't had time to update the website for the 'Black Edition'.
It may be a few weeks before I can finish the 87 octane version for the manual. Until I finish the tank, I'm running a 92 version with an unnecessarily large amount of ignition advance. (Best to have as little ign. advance as possible.)
Ahhhhhh yeaaaa
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#51
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Dan
'91 928GT S/C
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#52
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On both of my S3s, the max in the slot was about -16°. (One cam tooth is 7.5°.) Much more than I thought there would be.
I picked -12° for my tuning, as the 1-4 side needs -14° cold.
As the slot is close to the center of the gear, a degree at the belt surface is only a tiny movement at the slot. One bolt is offset, to locate the distributor rotor. Fortunately, it is offset advanced. (To make these readings using the 32V'r, use the 1|0 mark after 0|T, instead of 0|T.)
I picked -12° for my tuning, as the 1-4 side needs -14° cold.
As the slot is close to the center of the gear, a degree at the belt surface is only a tiny movement at the slot. One bolt is offset, to locate the distributor rotor. Fortunately, it is offset advanced. (To make these readings using the 32V'r, use the 1|0 mark after 0|T, instead of 0|T.)
![](http://members.rennlist.org/porken/CamGearMaxRetard10.jpg)
#53
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Hey Ken, that sounds great. One thing, I am using 87 most of the time right now and can't tell much of a difference to be honest. The car accelerates like a bullet and seems to have no isssues what so ever. I am not getting the milage I had hoped for so the Black edition might help more than you think. However, I am wondering if I will have the strength to get the cams to retard that much even with the bump stick. Also, will you write a dummy's version on how best to do it? Also, how much will the Black edition cost for us who have the s3s? Also, I want one of those oil seperater thingies...
Hey Avar, maybe you will want to wait for the black edition to do your cam covers. I think they have to come off to use a big wrench on the cams to turn them this much. I might be wrong and Ken will correct me if so but I think that it will be neccessary. What about it ken?
Thanks,
Hey Avar, maybe you will want to wait for the black edition to do your cam covers. I think they have to come off to use a big wrench on the cams to turn them this much. I might be wrong and Ken will correct me if so but I think that it will be neccessary. What about it ken?
Thanks,
#54
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Oy, the auto do take a bite, don't she? ![EEK!](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Since I have never dynoed this '86.5 auto, I used one of Glen M's dyno runs from last year, which has a similar setup, S300s, X-pipe, etc., as a baseline.
'86.5 auto, 150K miles, X-pipe, RMB, -12° retard, 87 octane, S300s Black Edition 1.0 chipset
Which car would you rather drive?![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
(SAE) (UNC 60F)
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Since I have never dynoed this '86.5 auto, I used one of Glen M's dyno runs from last year, which has a similar setup, S300s, X-pipe, etc., as a baseline.
'86.5 auto, 150K miles, X-pipe, RMB, -12° retard, 87 octane, S300s Black Edition 1.0 chipset
Which car would you rather drive?
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
(SAE) (UNC 60F)
![](http://members.rennlist.org/porken/86_5_vs_85_S300s_BE_STD.jpg)
Last edited by PorKen; 05-11-2012 at 01:08 AM.
#55
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Now, look what happens when you take the airbox lid off, like I did with my '86.5 manual, at the start of this thread... ![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Bit of a breathing problem with the retard!
(AFR graph added. Note tailpipe AFRs are often 0.5-1.0 point leaner than at the X-pipe.)
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Bit of a breathing problem with the retard!
(AFR graph added. Note tailpipe AFRs are often 0.5-1.0 point leaner than at the X-pipe.)
![](http://members.rennlist.org/porken/86_5_airbox_S300s_BE_STD.jpg)
Last edited by PorKen; 05-11-2012 at 03:15 AM.
#56
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If the 5-speed loses 12%, I think the S3 auto is not 15%, but closer to 20%. Maybe the S4-up box, with it's larger converter is more effecient?
-8° MT, vs. -12° AT. You can see the effect of keeping torque high does to HP. The AT is catching up with the MT.
I'm going to hazard the MT will dyno >330 STD at -12°.![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
-8° MT, vs. -12° AT. You can see the effect of keeping torque high does to HP. The AT is catching up with the MT.
I'm going to hazard the MT will dyno >330 STD at -12°.
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![](http://members.rennlist.org/porken/86_5_MT_AT_S300s_BE_STD.jpg)
#58
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I was going to order some chips for my wife's 86.5 so she can stay a little closer to the Murfmobile, thankfully I decided to see if Ken had any updates.....Black Edition chips for the wife's Black Edition..
Need another test subject Ken?
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Need another test subject Ken?
#59
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I have to figure out something for the airbox...no lid, but cool air.
Funny, as this was one of the first things I posted about on Rennlist (10 years ago).![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The AFR was the same w/o the airbox lid, so it wasn't a turbulence issue, or a leaning out, it was just a lack of air. Also evidenced by the overall gain from 2K to 6.5K.
Funny, as this was one of the first things I posted about on Rennlist (10 years ago).
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The AFR was the same w/o the airbox lid, so it wasn't a turbulence issue, or a leaning out, it was just a lack of air. Also evidenced by the overall gain from 2K to 6.5K.