Innovate Install Thread
06-20-2011, 06:10 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Innovate Install Thread
The UPS guy delivered a few packages today. 
One more box (boost gauge) and will be ready to start the install.
I was trying to find the thread that talked about how to hookup the WBO2 and stock O2 with a switch or something.
This was close, but I think there was another one.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-question.html
Basically the WBO2 is only for shark tuning and drive the A/F gauge and needs to be powered whenever the engine is running.
One more box (boost gauge) and will be ready to start the install.
I was trying to find the thread that talked about how to hookup the WBO2 and stock O2 with a switch or something.
This was close, but I think there was another one.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-question.html
Basically the WBO2 is only for shark tuning and drive the A/F gauge and needs to be powered whenever the engine is running.
06-20-2011, 09:12 PM
#3
The Murf kit is plug and play, with his chips installed it is plenty safe.
I believe Kurt is ditching the FMU and going larger injectors and Sharktuning, which will require a wide band.
Kurt: Do you have an X pipe in your immediate future? They have 2 bungs, one for the stock O2 and one for the wideband, really handy. I personally wouldn't run the narrow band emulation to the LH, have read here that it can cause problems.
I believe Kurt is ditching the FMU and going larger injectors and Sharktuning, which will require a wide band.
Kurt: Do you have an X pipe in your immediate future? They have 2 bungs, one for the stock O2 and one for the wideband, really handy. I personally wouldn't run the narrow band emulation to the LH, have read here that it can cause problems.
06-20-2011, 09:16 PM
#4
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No two engines are alike, and I am not saying a thing against the Murf kit, it is well thought out and VERY well done, but IMHO to run boost with out a wide band is rolling the dice.
Fuel pumps can partially fail, you can get trash in the fuel that will plug up filters, all sorts of things.
Fuel pumps can partially fail, you can get trash in the fuel that will plug up filters, all sorts of things.
The Murf kit is plug and play, with his chips installed it is plenty safe.
I believe Kurt is ditching the FMU and going larger injectors and Sharktuning, which will require a wide band.
Kurt: Do you have an X pipe in your immediate future? They have 2 bungs, one for the stock O2 and one for the wideband, really handy. I personally wouldn't run the narrow band emulation to the LH, have read here that it can cause problems.
I believe Kurt is ditching the FMU and going larger injectors and Sharktuning, which will require a wide band.
Kurt: Do you have an X pipe in your immediate future? They have 2 bungs, one for the stock O2 and one for the wideband, really handy. I personally wouldn't run the narrow band emulation to the LH, have read here that it can cause problems.
06-20-2011, 09:31 PM
#5
Captain Obvious
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No two engines are alike, and I am not saying a thing against the Murf kit, it is well thought out and VERY well done, but IMHO to run boost with out a wide band is rolling the dice.
Fuel pumps can partially fail, you can get trash in the fuel that will plug up filters, all sorts of things.
Fuel pumps can partially fail, you can get trash in the fuel that will plug up filters, all sorts of things.
06-20-2011, 09:42 PM
#6
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EDIT: to not have these basic safety monitors is just foolish IMHO, you guys carry on, this thread is about to go some place that I do not need to be involved with, Kurt, if you need help, feel free to PM me, I have installed several of the Innovate units.
06-20-2011, 10:36 PM
#7
I agree with you Greg, that is actually why I have one 
Not a necessity but it all depends on your comfortable with. I have been able to dial in my AFR just using my BEGI fmu to a pretty acceptable level because of my AEM wideband.
Not a necessity but it all depends on your comfortable with. I have been able to dial in my AFR just using my BEGI fmu to a pretty acceptable level because of my AEM wideband.
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06-20-2011, 10:46 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
Couple quick points… One, the supercharger might have been installed last year, but really hasn’t been driven much. First I had to get it rebuilt after SITM. Then I had to redo the suspension which turned into a brake project.
So except for a few trips around town, a trip to Hell, and a drive to SITM that about it for the past year plus. Also, it’s been slow accumulating all the necessary parts over the past year as budget allows.
The grand plan it to put 42 lb injectors and dump the Vortech FMU. Since the beginiing I've had overheating and surging issues. I’m hoping that tuning might fix some of this.
No X-pipe in the plan, but I will be running both O2 sensors. Also have a C&R raditor I can mess with or maybe get a higher capacity pusher fan.
Anyone using the Innovate G3 series gauges? I couldn’t find a matching set of VDO gauges and not sure they even have an A/F. Looking around, I found these and figured since the WB was Innovate why not try them.
I like how they coordinate. I think I finally have everything I need to go the level. I might have the record for slowest SC install considering I’ve been at it for at least 15 months now.
So except for a few trips around town, a trip to Hell, and a drive to SITM that about it for the past year plus. Also, it’s been slow accumulating all the necessary parts over the past year as budget allows.
The grand plan it to put 42 lb injectors and dump the Vortech FMU. Since the beginiing I've had overheating and surging issues. I’m hoping that tuning might fix some of this.
No X-pipe in the plan, but I will be running both O2 sensors. Also have a C&R raditor I can mess with or maybe get a higher capacity pusher fan.
Anyone using the Innovate G3 series gauges? I couldn’t find a matching set of VDO gauges and not sure they even have an A/F. Looking around, I found these and figured since the WB was Innovate why not try them.
I like how they coordinate. I think I finally have everything I need to go the level. I might have the record for slowest SC install considering I’ve been at it for at least 15 months now.
06-20-2011, 11:00 PM
#9
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I have used the Xd-16 gauges and they work pretty well, all of the innovate products seem to work, eventually if you stay after them and do not give up.
one thing I really like about them is they are all open to expansion.
I plan to install the carputer with a lot of temp and pressure sensors, we need to find a source for cheap, high quality 0-5 volt transducers and start to data log everything.
It should be pretty simple with the carputer and sharktuner, plus the Innovate systems.
06-20-2011, 11:13 PM
#10
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If they're necessary, why aren't they included in any of those factory boosted cars and aftermarket kits? Why aren't all of those cars without them blowing up engines?
It's funny how some people think that all of a sudden an engine can't be boosted without having a wide band O2 sensor, knock sensors, aftermarket engine management, special head gaskets, etc. I guess marketing and wide spread missinformation will probably always be more powerful than actual fact and knowlegde.
06-20-2011, 11:24 PM
#11
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They also had people that could read plugs, (which is very hard to do with unleaded gas) knew how to look and READ rod bearings, and had a much higher quality fuel.
If you really think that a wide band is not a really good and and required addition to any aftermarket supercharger install, not much I can do to convince you of that.
But you might want to check your history of engine development and find out just how many of the early boosted engines were lost, it was by the metric ton.
It is my personal view that to run a aftermarket supercharger with out a wide band and a fuel pressure gauge is just plain stupid.
I also bet that others in the past would have given fingers, or at least one to have had real time AF information, I know I might have in the past, and I have been at this a very, very long time.
If you really think that a wide band is not a really good and and required addition to any aftermarket supercharger install, not much I can do to convince you of that.
But you might want to check your history of engine development and find out just how many of the early boosted engines were lost, it was by the metric ton.
It is my personal view that to run a aftermarket supercharger with out a wide band and a fuel pressure gauge is just plain stupid.
I also bet that others in the past would have given fingers, or at least one to have had real time AF information, I know I might have in the past, and I have been at this a very, very long time.
A huge number of engines have been sucessfully boosted for over 100 years. Wide band O2 sensor air/fuel gauges have only commonly been around for maybe 10 years or so. There sure have been a lot of people who have had an awful lot of sucess "rolling the dice" in that 90+ years. That includes people who've added boost on their own, as well as those who bought a factory boosted car in that time. I'm pretty sure that Porsche didn't recommend a fuel pressure gauge or wide band to anybody when they bought a new 930 or 951. The same goes for every other boosted car manufacturer, and even every major aftermarket turbo or supercharger kit manufactuer that I know of.
If they're necessary, why aren't they included in any of those factory boosted cars and aftermarket kits? Why aren't all of those cars without them blowing up engines?
It's funny how some people think that all of a sudden an engine can't be boosted without having a wide band O2 sensor, knock sensors, aftermarket engine management, special head gaskets, etc. I guess marketing and wide spread missinformation will probably always be more powerful than actual fact and knowlegde.
If they're necessary, why aren't they included in any of those factory boosted cars and aftermarket kits? Why aren't all of those cars without them blowing up engines?
It's funny how some people think that all of a sudden an engine can't be boosted without having a wide band O2 sensor, knock sensors, aftermarket engine management, special head gaskets, etc. I guess marketing and wide spread missinformation will probably always be more powerful than actual fact and knowlegde.
06-20-2011, 11:27 PM
#12
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A huge number of engines have been sucessfully boosted for over 100 years. Wide band O2 sensor air/fuel gauges have only commonly been around for maybe 10 years or so. There sure have been a lot of people who have had an awful lot of sucess "rolling the dice" in that 90+ years. That includes people who've added boost on their own, as well as those who bought a factory boosted car in that time. I'm pretty sure that Porsche didn't recommend a fuel pressure gauge or wide band to anybody when they bought a new 930 or 951. The same goes for every other boosted car manufacturer, and even every major aftermarket turbo or supercharger kit manufactuer that I know of.
If they're necessary, why aren't they included in any of those factory boosted cars and aftermarket kits? Why aren't all of those cars without them blowing up engines?
And BTW, who are you? no name, no area that you live in, very low post count, sure sounds like a fake log on to me, what kind of 928 do you have?
How many supercharged engines have you done?
Fok it, I am done here, all you experts carry on
It's funny how some people think that all of a sudden an engine can't be boosted without having a wide band O2 sensor, knock sensors, aftermarket engine management, special head gaskets, etc. I guess marketing and wide spread missinformation will probably always be more powerful than actual fact and knowlegde.
If they're necessary, why aren't they included in any of those factory boosted cars and aftermarket kits? Why aren't all of those cars without them blowing up engines?
And BTW, who are you? no name, no area that you live in, very low post count, sure sounds like a fake log on to me, what kind of 928 do you have?
How many supercharged engines have you done?
Fok it, I am done here, all you experts carry on
It's funny how some people think that all of a sudden an engine can't be boosted without having a wide band O2 sensor, knock sensors, aftermarket engine management, special head gaskets, etc. I guess marketing and wide spread missinformation will probably always be more powerful than actual fact and knowlegde.
Many have ended up with holes in pistons trying to get "Just a little more"
06-20-2011, 11:47 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
So given that engine parts are still priced proportional to what these cars cost new, I don't think spending a few hundred on monitoring is unreasonable.
Kurt, I hate to go off-topic, but back to your original question: The biggest issue with the Innovate WBO2 is a clean ground point. The recommendation is to connect the signal and heater grounds (white and blue wires for an LC-1) together, and to a separate ground point. The floorboard bracket mounting bolts, with paint removed and cleaned to bright metal, work fine-- as do the ECU chassis-mounting bolts (again, cleaned up).
The WBO2 power can either be tapped off of the NBO2 sensor power (live with engine-running), or from the cig-lighter harness (live with ignition on).
06-21-2011, 12:20 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Kurt, was there any delay in receiving your shipment.
I've heard that Innovate is behind in filling their WB02 sensor orders. I ordered an Innovate MTX-L gauge - sensor - controller from DIYAutotune to run with an MS II system, and am curious if it will show up with the other items I ordered or if it will be back ordered.
I've heard that Innovate is behind in filling their WB02 sensor orders. I ordered an Innovate MTX-L gauge - sensor - controller from DIYAutotune to run with an MS II system, and am curious if it will show up with the other items I ordered or if it will be back ordered.
06-21-2011, 12:27 AM
#15
Captain Obvious
Super User
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When the HG went on my SC'd '85 (failed injector) a WB O2 or a a fuel pressure gauge would have done little good to me.
I had several factory boosted cars in my past and never had any issues with the factory tunning and the A/F ratio destroying a good running engine. When people start taking the safety factor out is when things can get dicey.