whall

I just finished installing a new LC-1. The readings are from 7.9 to 9.3 so I am guessing either a power or ground issue. Can you please tell me where you successfully tied into. I searched the forum but did not find the answer. If it is on, please provide link.
Thanks for any assistance.

blown 87

Are you looking at the values on a Shartuner?
If so you need to set the out put values for the LC-1.
(that is what you do on a LM-1 anyway)

whall

I am looking at the readings on my A/F guage.

blown 87

What does the gauge read in free air?

jcorenman

Warren,

You want the red wire tied to +12 volts, switched either with ignition or with the fuel pump. One place to pick this up is on the NBO2 sensor cable, disconnect the 3-pin plug and use a meter to find which of the white wires going to the sensor is +12v, with engine running (goes live with fuel pump). It is pin-2 on the 3-pin connector, if you can read the (little tiny) numbers .

And the white and blue wires from the LC-1 are the ground wires, connect those together and to a separate, clean chassis ground. The 6mm floorboard mounting bolts, or the ECU chassis mounting bolts are good options. The key is clean, bare metal connected to the chassis and not used for any other grounds (especially ground wires that carry a lot of current).

Also check which analog output you are connected to: The default LC-1 setup is for the WBO2 output on the brown wire (analog-2), 0-5 volts for an AFR reading of 7.4 to 22.4. The yellow wire (analog-1) is the simulated-NBO2 signal, 0-1 volts (which will read in the 8-9 AFR range, for a gauge expecting the wideband signal).

Those two analog signals can be reconfigured with the Innovate setup software, but it sounds like you might have the yellow wire instead of brown.

blown 87

He is the man to listen too.

SQLGuy

On mine I wired power, ground, and signal to the three-pin cable from the old O2.

I've been trying to find the best values for the simulated NB signal, though, and not quite there yet. The factory defaults seem OK, but not ideal. Someone on the Innovate forum suggested reducing the .958 Lambda voltage to something in the 700 millivolt range. I haven't had a chance to try that myself yet, though.

One other thing to be aware of is that, if you try to program the LC-1 with the engine running, it drops the outputs to 0 volts, and the car will stall (or at least mine does) within a minute or so. Data capture should be OK, but to program the unit you'll either need to switch the 12V supply somewhere else or bridge the fuel pump relay.

blown 87

That really does not sound like a good plan to me.

SQLGuy

Why not? The LC-1 shouldn't be drawing much more (if any more) power than the original NB. A heater is a resistive load, and, regardless, the LC-1 is going to have internal capacitors for power filtering.

Oh, just to be clear, this is not in parallel to the original O2, this is instead of it.

whall

In free air, the test did what the lc-1 manual said re blinking etc. the reading was 8.0 - obviously wrong. The ground and power - I went a lazy wrong where my last "****ty" analog a/f meter was connected - at cigarette lighter. That is why I was asking best sources. Thanks for response - will reroute. Was just curious what "best" sources was.

the flyin' scotsman

Warren.....no idea about your question just wanted to say hi......been a long time

blown 87

I really do not know where to even go with that, so I wont.

Here is the manual on the LC-1 wiring, you decide.

2 Mounting and Wiring the LC-1
1. Find a suitable location under your vehicle where the LC-1 body can be mounted. Using
zip ties or other suitable method, fasten the body of the LC-1 device securely to the framerails
or other mounting points as far away from the heat of the exhaust system as the sensor
cable allows. DO NOT zip-tie the LC-1 by the cables.
2. Route the cables from the LC-1 (except sensor cable) into the car interior under the dash.
3. LC-1 Cable connections:
A. Interface and power cables with 6 stripped ends*:
a. Red 12V supply
b. Blue Heater Ground
c. White System Ground
d. Yellow Analog out 1
e. Brown Analog out 2
f. Black Calibration wire
B. Serial In connection, 2.5mm stereo (female) marked as IN
C. Serial Out connection, 2.5 mm stereo (female) marked as OUT.
* 3.1 If you have an LC-1 with only 7 stripped ends the wiring is as follows:
a. Red 12V supply
b. Blue Heater Ground
c. White System Ground
d. Yellow Analog out 1
e. Brown Analog out 2
f. Green Analog Ground
g. Black Calibration wire
4. Connect the RED wire to a switched 12V source in your car. A switched 12V source
goes on as soon as the ignition on the car is on. Make sure the connection is fused with a
minimum fuse size of 5A.
5. The BLUE and WHITE wires should all be grounded to the same ground source.
Optimally, these (and any other MTS device ground) will be soldered to the same lug, and
connected to a single point. When this isn’t possible, connect each one to a separate lug,
and attach in close proximity. Multiple lugs on the same bolt is not optimal, and can result in
unwanted signal “noise.” When possible, soldering is always better than crimping. Please
see chapter 2.3 for more information on Electrical Grounding Concerns.
6. Optionally, the YELLOW (Analog out 1) and/or BROWN (Analog out 2) can be connected
to the analog inputs of other devices such as data loggers, ECUs, or gauges. If either one or
both of these wires are not being used isolate and tape the wire(s) out of the way. The default
analog outputs are as follows: Analog output one is 1.1V = 14 AFR and .1V = 15 AFR. This is
a simulated narrowband signal. Analog output two is setup as 0V = 7.35 AFR and 5V = 22.39
AFR. Note: The LC-1’s heater ground and system ground wires should share the same
grounding location of the analog input’s ground. Refer to chapter 2.2 for recommended
wiring schematics.
7. Optionally connect a momentary push-button switch between ground and the BLACK
calibration wire. Please refer to section 2.1.
Note: The use of the calibration wire is not necessary if the LC-1 is connected to Innovate
Motorsports’ XD-16 digital gauge. If the wire is not are not being used, isolate and tape the
wire out of the way.

SQLGuy

Yes, I read the manual too.

The only difference between what I did and what the manual calls for is that my +12V comes on when the fuel pump does and not when the ignition does. Is that what you are concerned about?

I normally don't sit in the car for more than a fraction of a second between turning the ignition on and starting the car, so, for normal driving there's not much of a difference there. The only real annoyance with power being tied to the original EGO's supply is like I said, that I have to bridge the fuel pump relay if I want to reprogram the unit, or run a recalibration, neither of which I should be doing often.

blown 87

No, what the manual calls for is B+ power SUPPLY, not off the NBO2 circuit.
Big difference.

jcorenman

SQL, I am not sure what you are trying to do with the LC-1, but programming the LC-1is a one-time deal, if ever-- the default settings work fine for most applications. So sure, jump the relay or do a temporary hookup to the cig-lighter.

The 12V power feed to the NBO2 sensor is fine as a 12v power source for the LC-1, just be sure you get the correct wire. Or you can tap off the cig-lighter bus, that works OK also-- and comes on with the ignition key (engine running, or not).

It is important that the WBO2 sensor be powered up whenever the engine is running, and it is also recommended that it NOT be powered up when the engine is not running-- the reason is being that a cold engine tends to spit condensation down the exhaust, which a hot WBO2 sensor will not like. Hence the recommendation for the NBO2-power connection. But not a big deal, IMO.

My concern is the ground connection. The ground wire in the NBO2 sensor connects to the engine block, which is where the engine electronics is grounded, but is NOT where the diagnostic plug (and a Sharktuner), or your WBO2 gauge, are grounded to. Use a clean chassis ground, instead, in order to get an accurate WBO2 signal.

The scale on the simulated-NBO2 makes no difference, whether it be 0 to 1 volt or 200-700 mV some other numbers. The LH is only looking for a signal above half a volt (mixture is rich), or below half a volt (mixture is lean). If you are getting different results with different variations on the 0-to-1 volt theme, then something else is wrong.

The test for whether the Sim-NBO2 is working properly is warm up the engine and then watch the WBO2 reading: If everything is happy then the WBO2 reading will move up and down half a unit around 14.7 AFR, once or twice a second, say from 14.3-ish to 15.3-ish. What is happening is that the LH is adjusting the mixture in response to the NBO2 signal, to maintain the correct mixture. This is true for a separate NBO2 sensor, or the simulated-NBO2-- IF everything is working right. If it goes rich, or lean, and sticks there then something is wrong.

Cheers,