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Phone Dial Design Project - Modern 18" 3-piece forged (Kickstarter launched, see post

 
Old 12-30-2010, 12:24 PM
  #31  
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Those images provided look great.
This being a custom piece you will have to pay to play like any custom piece.
But with what I see so far it looks to be worth it.
Thanks for taking this project on I look forward to watching the progress
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:27 PM
  #32  
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ideal size and offsets here i think - https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-my-shark.html

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Old 12-30-2010, 12:28 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Jadz928 View Post
Re 3-piece application, you're right, it offers flexibility. I like that, so it stays in consideration. But as you know, even std barrels are pricey (read $750/corner).
I'm pretty sure you can get rim halves for about $200-$250 from Forgeline. They would probably cut a bulk deal as well. I resized my Kinesis wheels about 18 months ago and have since forgotten exactly how much I paid, but I am pretty sure each barrel ranged in price from $200-$250 depending on size. That would put you at $400-$500 per corner. Not exactly cheap, but still an option.

I would think a forged blank for just a center would be much less expensive than a forged blank for a complete wheel, not to mention the time to machine a forged blank as a complete wheel. I'm just trying to figure out how you could make the wheels more accessible to folks, and you also can end up with flexibility WRT offsets.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:29 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
Per your handy little calculator, how would an 8.5 front with et70 work?

I would rather go with a higher offset and if necessary rack stops than lower just to clear the inside.

I need to see if Jim can find the offsets of the 10" front Fikse's on his car.
70 should be fine too, but might look a bit funny being inboard... not to mention, if you're running an aftermarket swaybar, you probably won't be able to go full lock (even with the 60et).
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:43 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Andrew Olson View Post
70 should be fine too, but might look a bit funny being inboard... not to mention, if you're running an aftermarket swaybar, you probably won't be able to go full lock (even with the 60et).
If my math skills are even remotely accurate, going from a 8" @ et57 to an 8.5" et70 would only be 1/4" further inboard.

Yea, not sure how that would look.

As you know, I'm not worried about full lock.

A deeper dish at least in the back like the 86 951 would be nice too.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:08 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Jadz928 View Post
^^^
Mike, that's an interesting considerarion. I'll find out for sure, but would tend towards USDOT is not in the wheel business.
There are SO many wheels, coming in from all countries...
Let me ask my friends over at Hartmann.

FWIW, Hartmann is not going to be the mfg., as it doesn't fit their biz plan... but have been very kind to consult.

Asian vendors have dictated they do the final design, and will not accept my design for mfg. (wussies).
I'm okay with that as long as I have final approval of mfg data.

Just to recap:
There is no big market product here unless someone has $50K-$100K to pony-up for larger volume tooling.

This is a low-volume, "one-off" or possibly "group buy" deal, somewhere in the $3K-5K range.

How many people would buy this wheelset for $3500 - if it were similar to CIII specs? (18" x 8" front, 10" rear)

I think I know my market, but have been suprised before.

PS. I'm not in this to make money, just doing it for fun.
If it so happens there's money to be made down the line, so be it.
Just thinking out loud, but adding a VW lug bolt pattern like 5X100 would increase someone's market significantly (read: suggest anything to get these puppies at a price I could afford). At any rate, this is an awesome project.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:15 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Benton View Post
I'm pretty sure you can get rim halves for about $200-$250 from Forgeline. They would probably cut a bulk deal as well. I resized my Kinesis wheels about 18 months ago and have since forgotten exactly how much I paid, but I am pretty sure each barrel ranged in price from $200-$250 depending on size. That would put you at $400-$500 per corner. Not exactly cheap, but still an option. I would think a forged blank for just a center would be much less expensive than a forged blank for a complete wheel, not to mention the time to machine a forged blank as a complete wheel. I'm just trying to figure out how you could make the wheels more accessible to folks, and you also can end up with flexibility WRT offsets.
Mark, Good to know about Forgelines.
Seems like just the center would be cheaper, but even at $2K in barrels alone would make "of the shelf" forged blanks competetive IMHO.
The amount of machine time on a forged blank would be very similar to doing just the center - 2 setups, front & back.
The blanks have just enough "meat" to adjust back and front spacing.. and hopefully enough to acheive the desired look and necessary structure.
I can't wait to get my hands on some datasheets for the forged blanks to see how the design fits up.

Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
...A deeper dish at least in the back like the 86 951 would be nice too.
You know it! (..and so does Carlos H.)
If you look at the C3's front-spacing and shape, then compare it to the shape of the phonedial... would allow for a deep lip, I think.
And there might be room to play with offset a touch to acheive a desire effect.
Definitely not going for ultra deep "pimpin style" though.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:16 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Black28 View Post
Just thinking out loud, but adding a VW lug bolt pattern like 5X100 would increase someone's market significantly (read: suggest anything to get these puppies at a price I could afford). At any rate, this is an awesome project.
That's not a bad idea. If the production of the wheel's has the lug holes drilled last, it's possible.

Then again, if the offset is in the 60-70 range, that leave plenty of room for the VW guys to use the already available lug conversion spacers.

They would most likely be interested in the 8.5". I've seen 11's on a VW, not pretty

Cross post the images from post #16 to the 944 and 911 forums. I guarantee we are not the only ones looking for such a wheel.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:23 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
If my math skills are even remotely accurate, going from a 8" @ et57 to an 8.5" et70 would only be 1/4" further inboard.

Yea, not sure how that would look.

As you know, I'm not worried about full lock.

A deeper dish at least in the back like the 86 951 would be nice too.
I think you math is correct. 8" ET70 or 8-1/2" ET70 would be close to stock GTS fronts @ 7.5" ET65.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:21 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
Per your handy little calculator, how would an 8.5 front with et70 work?

I would rather go with a higher offset and if necessary rack stops than lower just to clear the inside.

I need to see if Jim can find the offsets of the 10" front Fikse's on his car.
A 17in dia / 9 inch wide front wheel (255) with an et70 works very well on the S4

A 18in dia / 10 inch wide rear wheel (295) with an et 47 also works really well on the S4 with stock fender lip rolling.

I would like to have 18in wheels front and rear. I would like 9in up front and 10 and 11 inch options for the rear. The 10in for the S4, 11in for the GTS hipped car(s). On the 11in rear wheels you might increase the offset from 47 to 50 to accommodate the wider wheel. This would allow running of 305-315 meat in the back.

I would be in for

2 18in dia / 9in wide ET 70 front wheels
2 18in dia / 10in wide ET47 rear wheels (for the S4)
2 18in dia / 11in wide ET50 rear wheels (for the GTS hipped car)

This way I could put the wheels on either car.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:54 PM
  #41  
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^^^^
Dan, let me ask you... are you interested in "if you build it, I will buy" or "I would like you to make me 6 wheels"?

Do you have a preference of single-piece or 3-piece?

Guys, thanks for all the ET talk. Makes good sense to me.
Don't want to get deep into until I apply it to the design.

I want to get the 18" design "roughed in" and rendered on someone's early car and S4> to see how these are going to look. - esp. on the later body style. I think it's going to work.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:41 PM
  #42  
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ohhh..... make some 4x100..... I'm going to put my phone dials on my Scirocco...and those 4x100 to 5x130 hub adapters are like $180 a pair (need 30 or 35mm thick ones).. crazy to drop nearly $400..on just the adapters..and then there's the cost of the wheels too..

Lots of older VW's have the 4X100 bolt pattern..and they seem to love Porsche wheels...mostly the phone dials... but they even like the manhole covers too... (If you are looking at selling those manhole's..pop over to vwvortex. )...
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:00 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Jadz928 View Post
^^^^
Dan, let me ask you... are you interested in "if you build it, I will buy" or "I would like you to make me 6 wheels"?

Do you have a preference of single-piece or 3-piece?

Guys, thanks for all the ET talk. Makes good sense to me.
Don't want to get deep into until I apply it to the design.

I want to get the 18" design "roughed in" and rendered on someone's early car and S4> to see how these are going to look. - esp. on the later body style. I think it's going to work.

Jim, I prefer the solid single piece most. Although if you could get a three piece wheel to look like a single piece that would work okay and would provide the most variability, especially if it was 1/2 the price of single cut piece wheel.

If you build it I will buy it if the wheels are close to the specs I've outlined above. I find the 9 inch front wheels are just magic with 255's. Jwise and I are running the same configuration and both us have noted very good performance characteristics.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:03 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
Per your handy little calculator, how would an 8.5 front with et70 work?

I would rather go with a higher offset and if necessary rack stops than lower just to clear the inside.

I need to see if Jim can find the offsets of the 10" front Fikse's on his car.
+928 on ET70.

Maintaining at least a factory offset of ET65 is desirable.. or at a minimum, ET60. Carrera III's are a compromise.. they're the highest front offset on any modern Porsche rim that fits the 928 (well.. they were until Panamera wheels), but they're still not ideal.

Having ET70 fronts gives some flexibility; people who want lower offset can use spacers to reduce the negative offset.

Someone recently posted on the Aussie mailing list some wheel size history and mentioned that Dave Roberts apparently had no fitment issues on a stock body with ET68.5 9.5"x18" fronts and 255/35-18 tyres on a 90GT (and rears were 11"x18" ET54 and 295/30-18 tyres), so some people may actually want higher than ET65
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:36 AM
  #45  
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[QUOTE=Hilton;8171963]+928 on ET70.



Having ET70 fronts gives some flexibility; people who want lower offset can use spacers to reduce the negative offset.

+1 That hits the nail on the head. In fact giving as much offset as humanly possible with this design and adjusting back down would make this wheel work for nearly everyone. I think Mark K runs a front rim with in excess of ET75.
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