DR

Hi Jerry,

Haven't had time yet to completely catch up on this thread, just seen snapshots of it over time.

Great Job so far!

Not sure what future plans you have for more of these, but I am pretty sure I have 99.9% perfect examples of almost all older variations of front and rear liners (a few shown in pics below) if you want and/or need some to make patterns with.

I even have one of the rare (most people never seen or heard of them) early front bumper cover splash guards for the early 928s without front spoilers(first pic).. Be happy to send it (or any others) to you if you want to reproduce them for the guys. They really finish off the transition from the bottom of the bumper cover back to the front wheel liners for non-S spoilered 928s.

Only have one side, but IIRC they are mirror imaged anyway.

Jadz928

DR,
I saw one of those when digging into my early car. I'd never seen it before!

I have left side one, but not the other.
Are these NLA?

Here's where DR's talking about. This is showing where mine is missing.

Jerry Feather

Thanks, David.

That is certainly a lot of food for thought. One thing you pictures caused me is something a little like some kind of culture shock. With regard to the material you are showing that relates to the rear wheel wells, I am now wondering just how many different mounting configurations all of the 928s have, partiucularly the early cars. Although I think the basic liners I am developing will "fit" into the space intended, I am concerned about just how many different mounting systems I am going to have to figure out how to develop, and how I am going to do that without many of the cars available.

I guess I had better start some work on additions to my collection.

Thanks again.

Jerry Feather

Speedtoys

Maybe its beyond the scope of having a few simple managable part numbers/blows to cover absolutely everything?


A drill, some rivnuts, and a few studs, and you can create a mounting point for anything...and takes no skill.

Jadz928

Hi Jerry,
Project is coming along awesomely!

I understand your concern for SKU's across the broad model range.
May I suggest targeting a group of beta prototype testers for fit/function across a broader range. I'm sure you would find some volunteers who may be willing to pony-up to have first crack at your product. Maybe offer it to "beta prototypers" at cost?
What you may ask in return is for feedback. Feedback which may be invaluable is you are considering a more comprehensive product launch.

Jerry Feather

Hi Jim. That approach is certainly worth considering. I always try to think far ahead on my projects so as not to be too surprised or dissapointed when the future shows up.

In this case the target group is the GTS guys and secondarily the GT ans S4 guys, and I think I have enough information to get those liners to "market." We haven't had much feedback from the pre-S4 guys on this and I suspect that all of my planning for them may not amount to as much as the others. Still I have to keep them in mind for whatever interest there is. That is perhaps where your suggestion will come in the handiest.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Jerry Feather

DR

Jerry,

Most variations, at least in the front, are going to be related to ABS (or not) etc. SO, you could make one the fits the ABS, that will still fit the non-abs 928s etc.

But, yeah there are a bunch of different ones, if you need help tracking down all the variations I would be glad to help any way I can.

Even if you did exact replicas and even IF they cost a ltitle more than Porsche versions..I think the material you are using will probably hold up longer and be less prone to cracking/breaking etc. and would be worth ever more than th originals for mere mortals (not the Pebble Beach type restorations :-).

Keep up the great work!

Jerry Feather

Hi Jeff. Thanks for that. However, when I get these liners blowing correctly they will be coming in contact with the inner surroundings of the wheel well in only a few places. At those locations there can very easily be holes and fasteners put in place, as you suggest, by just about anyone. The problem is that that will not be sufficient to hold these liners where they belong well enough. There can be additional holes, in both the car and the liners, but the additional ones are going to be remote from each other; so that is where the problem comes in. Something must be provided to fill the gap.

That something needs to be designed and fabricated so it can be first fastened to the car at a mounting point or points and then fastened to the liner at the flange. I don't think that is something that can be done without some level of skill and perhaps a little bit of odd equipment, such as a $17 heat gun from Harbor Freight, except perhaps one that is fabricated from a kit I might provide, perhaps for example for the two upper GTS mounting points.

That kit could be simply a flat piece of plastic with two holes in it that one can fasten to the two upper mounting points and extends outward past the plane of the inner liner flange. Then it will include another flat piece of plastic that can first be placed against the one fastened in, at a right angle, and pushed up against the outer surface of the flange and marked with the circumfrance. Then it will be taken out and trimmed inside of the line drawn so that it will now fit in the same location but on the other side of the flange. When it is located there it can be simply glued together to the flat piece that is screwed in the car, with ABS glue from the hardwarte store, and when the glue sets the right angle adapter can now be drilled with two holes between it and the flange on the liner. The whole thing can be taken out and trimmed to remove the excess material outside of the glue joint.

Or the thing can be made ahead of time, if one has a GTS car to work with. That one can be formed rather than glued and installed and trimmed as above. Or, when the design is fully developed to work with all the GTS cars it can be fully made ahead of time, including drilling some or most of the holes.

The other two similar but perhaps more complicated adapter pieces will be more difficult to make, but perhaps not by too much. I am going out to work of them a little right now, so if I have some success we can talk about it some more later.

Thanks for you input.

Jerry Feather

Jerry Feather

Thanks again David. Good to have your input on this. JF

Jerry Feather

What you will notice when you get to fitting some of these liners in the rear of your 928 is that the bottom of the frame, just aft of the rear cross member mounting points ,is made up of a sort of flange which I think consists of the outer sheet metal, the inner frame member and the inner sheet matal. It is about 3/16 inch or so thick and is about 3/4 inch deep/wide at its wider point and about 1/2 for the other part. It is almost a foot long.

What I did is blow another pair of inner halves, mainly to see if I could cure a tight spot and which is also blowing too thinly in that spot. I wasn't able to get it to form thicker, but I did form it so it is not so tight. I am going to adjust the radiation baffles in the oven and see if I can shift some of the heat to the other side and try again.

Nevertheless, with the latest blow, I trimmed it off the previous one (too short though) and began looking at the mounting ideas. I left a wider piece of waste along the center area that faces the frame rail and then decided to clamp it up with some rough jigging and heat it with my heat gun and form it into a slot or "hem" that is about quarter inch wide but with about 5/8 inch "seam allowance." Then when I fit this one to the car I simply shoved the new hem up and over the flange on the bottom of the frame rail. I think with some refinement in the depth and width of that hem it is actually going to be stiff enough to hold the center of the liner to the car very successfully. In fact, even the GTS guys are probably not going to need to have holes in this area to screw the liner to their original holes.

Then I gave some thought and observation to how to do some more of the mounting. What I see is going to happen is that there will end up being a hard mount point to one original point in the front and one in the rear. These I have mentioned before. Then there are going to be two sort of flexible mounting points on the flange at about 10 and 11 oclock in the front (looking at the liner from the left side of the car) and another two at about 1 and 2 oclock from the same vantage. The two in front and the two in back will each be connected with an adapter I discussed previously to two original points in the front and two in the rear.

Then, I think the outer half of these liners, when I get them going, will each probably have an original mounting point in front and in back and then simply be fastened to the inner half with connectors.

With all of that and the quality of the material, I think there is going to be adequate mounting for these liners, and even without the upper two points that the GTS has, unless they are wanted as an option. They can also be accomodated if desired. In fact, the GTS guys can also drill and screw these to the original holes in their frames, or some of them if they desire.

It started raining, and my knee is giving me a lot of trouble getting up and down in front of the wheel well, so I am going to knock off for a while. I may go out later and start working on the jig that I will need to make to help put the doubler around the liner inner half that I plan, and I need something to help hold the liner in place while the glue dries. That doubler is going to help with strength between the two halves of the liner and some "body" for the connectors to grab onto. I am also going to use that jig and the hold-down strap as a guide for drilling the common connecting points between the liner halves.

Stay tuned.

Jerry Feather

Glenn M

On the S4/GT cars couldn't one rivet in a Z (strait vertical) bracket with a floating nut plate?

I understand some folks may not want to drill a hole in the wheel well and rivet in a bracket.

JB Weld?

Jerry Feather

Yes, Glen. On the cars that do not have the top two mounting points I have considered that two hat section brackets could very well be bonded in at the proper locations, or any locations, for that matter, and that they could be utilized like the GTS top mounting points to anchor the top of these new liners. The guy in the field would have to clean off a place or two from the undercoat in the top of the wheel well and then use something like the body bond material that is avilable to glue body panels together. I have used it a time or two and got it from the auto body paint store. It is a two part concoction and is used like any other kind of glue. It stays kind of pliable, but is very strong for holding sheet metel components together.

The problem is that even for me to consider doing all of that is a daunting task; and much more than I expect any 928 guy is going to be interested in doing in the field. I think the exceptional one who is interested in something like that can probably do it on his own; but only if the liners are adequately mounted without the exrtra points. If they are not not, then I will probably be developing something just like you suggest.

Thanks for your input. That always helps to hear what others are thinking.

Jerry Feather

Hilton

DR - just to clarify, the liners Jerry is making are for the REAR wells. Your pics all show pieces from the front ones, so I suspect you've got the wrong end of the stick.. er.. car

Jerry is making tougher substitutes that will fit like the stock ones in 91 S4/GT and GTS, and will also fit earlier cars too.

Jerry Feather

Just to bring you up to date--I had my right knee repaired early this morning.

It was outpatient, so I have been home resting since about 9 oclock this morning. I had been on the edge of not having it done because of an expected period of incapacity, but I went ahead. The surgeon said it was worse that he could tell from the MRI, but that it repaired very well. Too, I don't have any pain yet and I don't think that is because of any local anesthesia; and the Dr said I need to use about 30 percent of my weight on it right off. I have crutches, but he said they will be needed mostly for stability. I think that means I will be back at my work and projects very soon. Actually I think I will be able to do some of the design work in my head, at least when it clears up a little more.

Progress is movement in any direction.

Jerry Feather

DR

Hi Hilton,

You may need to look closer at the 3rd photo...and/or look at the BACK of some earlier 928s every once in a while :-)



I get that he is making liners for the rear.....for now.