Track Tires
07-09-2010, 02:21 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Track Tires
It's been a couple of years since I needed new track tires. I'm looking for wheels but will probably be going with some S4 wheels and 225/50/16 and 245/45/16 tires.
Since I last bought DOT competition tires the market has changed. I liked MPSCs but those aren't made in those sizes any more. I'm thinking Hoosier R6.
For context, the local track (BIR) is 3 miles and 10 turns. Going into the first corner, which is banked, I'll be touching 150.
Opinions?
Since I last bought DOT competition tires the market has changed. I liked MPSCs but those aren't made in those sizes any more. I'm thinking Hoosier R6.
For context, the local track (BIR) is 3 miles and 10 turns. Going into the first corner, which is banked, I'll be touching 150.
Opinions?
07-09-2010, 02:26 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
How long is the straight if you are hitting 150 before you turn! OMG! I can just get to 135 in my S4 at the end of the .5+ front straight at Texas World Speedway.
You might check on used racing slicks...you can usually get them cheap and if you can find a good size that is regularly available and wheels they will fit on you can have a BUNCH of fun for cheap!!! That is what I do w/ the race car.
You might check on used racing slicks...you can usually get them cheap and if you can find a good size that is regularly available and wheels they will fit on you can have a BUNCH of fun for cheap!!! That is what I do w/ the race car.
07-09-2010, 02:42 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
I highly recommend the Toyo Proxes RA-1's.
I've driven Kumho's and the Hoosiers, and my impression is that the Toyo's are a nice compromise.
They drive better than the Kumho's, which have always had a cobby feel to me on the track and always felt like a second rate tire. The price was so attractive for an R-compound that for track days it was a no brainer, but if you've got more to work with than a minimal budget, I'd take a pass on the Kumho.
Hoosiers ride nice and just have excellent grip, their fault is in their pricing and they don't seem to last all that long.
The Toyo's are just indestructable, and drive nice and predictable. (and I believe they are still available inthe 245/45 16). I bought a used set that I truly thought were on their last legs, I didn't think I'd make through a single track day. And when I say track day, here in the Pac NW, that isn't 4 thirty minute sessions. That is putting in a solid six hours on the track. I've been through three track days, and the tires look exactly the same as when I first put them on. Truly incredible.
Try the Toyo's Glen, you won't be disappointed. RA-1's, not the R-888's.
I've driven Kumho's and the Hoosiers, and my impression is that the Toyo's are a nice compromise.
They drive better than the Kumho's, which have always had a cobby feel to me on the track and always felt like a second rate tire. The price was so attractive for an R-compound that for track days it was a no brainer, but if you've got more to work with than a minimal budget, I'd take a pass on the Kumho.
Hoosiers ride nice and just have excellent grip, their fault is in their pricing and they don't seem to last all that long.
The Toyo's are just indestructable, and drive nice and predictable. (and I believe they are still available inthe 245/45 16). I bought a used set that I truly thought were on their last legs, I didn't think I'd make through a single track day. And when I say track day, here in the Pac NW, that isn't 4 thirty minute sessions. That is putting in a solid six hours on the track. I've been through three track days, and the tires look exactly the same as when I first put them on. Truly incredible.
Try the Toyo's Glen, you won't be disappointed. RA-1's, not the R-888's.
07-09-2010, 02:47 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
If it helps, for comparison sake, a stock S4 can hit 145mph at the end of the front straight at Spokane Raceway Park. Don Hanson in his DEVEK stroker was claiming to be at 160+ going into the brake zone.
Lots of hard braking at this track, I don't think the Toyo's flat spot as easy as the Hoosiers.
Lots of hard braking at this track, I don't think the Toyo's flat spot as easy as the Hoosiers.
07-09-2010, 02:48 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
On a related note, if you use 928 D90 (GT) wheels in 7.5 X 16 and 9 X 16 you can use a 245/45 front and a 265/45 rear tire...if you can find them...I always like that combination...might be that 245/45's front and rear would have been more balanced...never tried it.
07-09-2010, 05:55 AM
#6
Racer
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Extending original post question:
888: Good for track, bad in wet when cold.
RA-1: Not available (in spain). Suposedly same compound, different pattern. Miata guys claim similar performance when shaved down, easier to put up to temp.
R1R: Harder that 888. Halfway between track and street tire.
T1R: Same than the R1r, with rain profile. (Different thread pattern)
http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showt...php?t=1260320#
^post number 8^
Seems to me that only 888 and RA-1 are real race compound, the rest being street compounds. I've found a good balance with potenzas so I don't feel like trying another street compound.
Being the goal to have a constant trouble free tire for 4 or 5 full track days and occasional road use,
are the 888s good for that? Will they cause a lubrication problem in the engine due to increased grip?
I'm now using potenzas S-02 all round and I'm pretty happy with them. (You know I'm not mad about laptimes). But if 888s last about half or more, then I could consider using them. (by the way, I drive with ABS on). I'm getting my head regullary rip off by those using slicks and It would be nice to rule the tires before considering replacing the driver
Thanks and best regards,
888: Good for track, bad in wet when cold.
RA-1: Not available (in spain). Suposedly same compound, different pattern. Miata guys claim similar performance when shaved down, easier to put up to temp.
R1R: Harder that 888. Halfway between track and street tire.
T1R: Same than the R1r, with rain profile. (Different thread pattern)
http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showt...php?t=1260320#
^post number 8^
Seems to me that only 888 and RA-1 are real race compound, the rest being street compounds. I've found a good balance with potenzas so I don't feel like trying another street compound.
Being the goal to have a constant trouble free tire for 4 or 5 full track days and occasional road use,
are the 888s good for that? Will they cause a lubrication problem in the engine due to increased grip?
I'm now using potenzas S-02 all round and I'm pretty happy with them. (You know I'm not mad about laptimes). But if 888s last about half or more, then I could consider using them. (by the way, I drive with ABS on). I'm getting my head regullary rip off by those using slicks and It would be nice to rule the tires before considering replacing the driver
Thanks and best regards,
07-09-2010, 07:06 AM
#7
Ragnar
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07-09-2010, 10:40 AM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Likely wouldn't be in-spec for what the manufacturer says. I just turned down some 18" 996 wheels because the fronts were only 7.5".
The straight at BIR includes the drag strip and is a mile long. I fiddle with the radio, text, make phone calls, etc. The Big Boys are up to 170. My 944 putters in at about 115.
Hoosiers had the rep of being fast but wearing out. Some guys have said that has changed. Any first-hand on that?
I've been thinking about Proxes RA-1. Tire Rack doesn't handle them. Where are people buying them?
The straight at BIR includes the drag strip and is a mile long. I fiddle with the radio, text, make phone calls, etc. The Big Boys are up to 170. My 944 putters in at about 115.
Hoosiers had the rep of being fast but wearing out. Some guys have said that has changed. Any first-hand on that?
I've been thinking about Proxes RA-1. Tire Rack doesn't handle them. Where are people buying them?
07-09-2010, 01:36 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I get 3 weekends out of a set of hoosiers, and probably double that out of a set of toyos. the difference in stick is pretty apparent, but times are not all that different. in fact, my best is only .3 second off slower with the toyos.
yes, at willow, it might be more like 1 second, but you get the picture. for what you are doing, the toyos are a great pick. awesome in the wear department.
I have a set that has been near corded since last year, 2000 street miles on them, maybe more, and 3 race weekends. I flipped the fronts on the rims and these guys wont die. I will never pull a toyo unless I see cords up front or the rears are totaly without any tread lines. and they still stick reasonably well.
yes, at willow, it might be more like 1 second, but you get the picture. for what you are doing, the toyos are a great pick. awesome in the wear department.
I have a set that has been near corded since last year, 2000 street miles on them, maybe more, and 3 race weekends. I flipped the fronts on the rims and these guys wont die. I will never pull a toyo unless I see cords up front or the rears are totaly without any tread lines. and they still stick reasonably well.
Likely wouldn't be in-spec for what the manufacturer says. I just turned down some 18" 996 wheels because the fronts were only 7.5".
The straight at BIR includes the drag strip and is a mile long. I fiddle with the radio, text, make phone calls, etc. The Big Boys are up to 170. My 944 putters in at about 115.
Hoosiers had the rep of being fast but wearing out. Some guys have said that has changed. Any first-hand on that?
I've been thinking about Proxes RA-1. Tire Rack doesn't handle them. Where are people buying them?
The straight at BIR includes the drag strip and is a mile long. I fiddle with the radio, text, make phone calls, etc. The Big Boys are up to 170. My 944 putters in at about 115.
Hoosiers had the rep of being fast but wearing out. Some guys have said that has changed. Any first-hand on that?
I've been thinking about Proxes RA-1. Tire Rack doesn't handle them. Where are people buying them?
07-09-2010, 01:43 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Nope! I have driven 10k VERY HARD track miles on my S4 with that set up and 265's on the back. I suspect (based on my experience w/ my race car) if I had 245 front and rear the car would handle even better...well, ultimate grip might be down a bit, but the BALANCE would be better and more fun to drive. The understeer on my S4 is quite pronounced. If you are REALLY careful you can trail brake in to corners to help, but you sure go through front tires fast!!! I could barely get SIX run sessions out of a set of front R's! YOWZA that makes for an expensive weekend!
BTW, the wheel diameter and tire profile make a HUGE difference in what will fit and what won't so on a 16" X 7.5" rim a 245/45 is a fine fit actually!
BTW, the wheel diameter and tire profile make a HUGE difference in what will fit and what won't so on a 16" X 7.5" rim a 245/45 is a fine fit actually!
07-14-2010, 02:26 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
The tires showed up today. Still tied in bundles but thought to mention it. I've never used this vendor before and the tires were much cheaper than I was seeing from other, well-known companies.