robot808

According to Illinois state law:
Children weighing more than 40 pounds may be transported in the back seat of a motor vehicle while wearing only a lap belt if the back seat is not equipped with a lap and shoulder belt system.

I have an 82 that has the lap belts in the back.

Not sure I would feel safe driving my 5 year old, 42 lb daughter back there with no seat.

Any thoughts?

Asquared

When you say "no seat" I assume you mean no child seat.

If you read Freakanomics, his position is that child seats have absolutely no impact on child safety, the ONLY important thing is wearing a seatbelt. I think he actually says that if we were really concerned about safety, we would have the kids right in the front seat and the adults ride in the rear.

I think you will be fine.

jeff spahn

My 5 year old that is 42 pounds rides in the back and front seats on a regular basis. He loves the back seat because the tunnel gives him somewhere to rest his head.

Imo000

How can he say that? It's as saying a lap belt is just as safe/good as a 5 point harnes.

jon928se

All my friends with small kids travel in kids seats. These are the child equivalent of a race seat with 5 point harness and adjustable height shoulder strap slots that do not compress the spine in the event of an accident.

Makes sense to me even if I survived childhood sitting on the rear bench seat of a car with no crumple zones, airbags or seatbelts of any sort.

Asquared

Here is the article

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/magazine/10FREAK.html

cold_beer839

I remember standing up on our station wagon's front bench seat, between my mom and dad, while chewing on a lead-base painted toy and I lived.......

jpitman2

Many tests down here have shown submarining to be very common when there is no crutch strap, and side impacts produce lateral whip lashing if there are no high side cushions on child seats. We carry g'daughter in centre rear postion of daily driver (Suby GT wagon) - safest, and best vision for her, reducing car-sickness. Pretty much impossible in a 928.
Here its illegal to carry children under 8 years in a front seat.
jp 83 Euro S AT 52k

Erik N

My thoughts?

Don't even think about it!

I don't care what the law says, it would be unsafe IMHO.

In a 928, the rear lap belts are mounted too high for proper positioning even for a small adult. If used on a child, without a proper child's carseat and associated harness, the belt will locate itself way up on their abdominal area. In the result of a crash, the kid's body would be folded in half like a taco at their abdomen (which is not a natural hinge point) which could potentially rupture their spleen, liver, etc., OR they will submarine down and under the belt probably resulting in a distraction injury to their spine and possible damaged lower extremities.
Also, with no type of upper body restraint, the kid's torso and head would be stopped by the seatback in front of them, forcing their head backwards resulting in a possible whiplash-like extension injury to their cervical spine, and damage to their face.

Seriously, buy a good carseat. An added bonus of a carseat is that in the event of a major crash, the rescue teams will leave your daughter securely strapped into it and transport her intact to the ED and up to cat-scan. Without the seat, the crew will have to stabilize her possibly damaged neck/spine/extremities as best they can while removing her from the wreck, but there would be inevitable unavoidable movement of the patient this way. And since she's only 5, she would be terrified and probably uncooperative, thus compounding the difficulty of a smooth extrication/immobilization.

Get a carseat for her. There are programs in place to get carseats to families that need them for FREE.

I don't mean to rag on you, but I have been on enough tragic calls that could have had better outcomes if parents would have used a little common sense beforehand.

robot808

I have a good car seat for her that fits back there, but it is so cramped that it is no fun for either of us having her in it. I took for a ride one time in the car seat and that was it. She has not been back in the car since.
I was looking at the state website and they allow kids in the back as long as there is no shoulder strap. I thought it a bit funny in this day and age.
I read the Freakonomics article and now have little faith in the seats either although I will continue to use them. The article refers to the difference in child seats and shoulder/lap belts, not just lap belts.

karl ruiter

I sometimes put my kids in the back without boosters, as they are old enough for that to be legal where I am, but I put in different belts that don't anchor so high. Gives them a good, secure waist connection that is positioned well. Thinking about having custom harnesses made, though. Trouble with car seats for me is that I have to have front seat all the way back and that leaves little room in the back, even without the car seat.

Lance J

my friend is a M.D. and surgeon he says they get a least 75% organ lacerations from seat-belts.... but the harness type one are the best... I have an Orbit car seat fits just fine even though it cost me what a pair of racing seats would cost me. anyway harness belts

mark kibort

I put the kids in the front seat with a booster seat and shoulder and lap belts.

mark kibort

what about the "lawn chair" that we sat in with a fake steering wheel between mom and dad? .

robot808

Illinois rules:
Booster seats should be used with adult lap and shoulder
belts in the back seat.