Lizard928

If you do a proper job of the engine harness it will look 100% stock and he will never know.

This will require you to retain the stock distributor caps/rotors, leads etc. which is OK. But going to COP on CNP ign is IMO a huge gain.

mark kibort

kind of nuts, but i guess if you have all the wiring harness, the ingniters up front, dual coils and all the associated wiring, you might get it to run. . seems like a lot of work for not much performannce. I think it would be better just to do a euro 2 valve 5 liter.

Erik N

I'm not so sure I would do that... He might recognize the car later. I believe if a VIN gets flagged by the DMV, you will have a hell of a time EVER getting it cleared again.

Might be a candidate for, "Don't ask, Don't tell..." I'm just sayin.

Tom. M

My track car has a long history here on the list... Story was:
Doctor had a 82 928. Stock engine sucked in water and was toast. Got insurance to put in new engine (used a 91 S4 candidate) and everything was swapped in (whole harness etc). Used stock fuse panel and wired LH/EZK into that (with bypassed temp sensors). At that time, GTS flares were grafted on too. Car never ran well, and got transferred a few times.. first to Dan Brindle (pod guy) who traded it to Threshie (yea..I know..scary), and after Threshie disappeared, Dan got the car back and then I got it.

It has the single disk clutch and TT mated to the original 82 5sp trans. I recently swapped in a 90GT trans due to synchro issues with the single disk and older tranny synchros. I'll take a look at the cross member ...don't recall if that was swapped..

The original powersteering pump, alternator, and old style two pole oil pressure sender were kept and mated to the 91 engine. (lower harness is kinda butchered, but OK). When I got the car I started to go through it and figured out the running issues were with the LH brain (swapped in my GT brains and the car ran like a dream --295rwhp). At that point I was trying to decide which way to go (either LH rebuild or something else). Decided to work a deal with Colin and put his old MS system on my track car. Much simpler to wire and nice to have the built in diagnostics etc. Car ran right out of the swap and Im still playing and optimizing as time allows. Colin has done a few more MS swaps and I think with his codes, my codes etc, there are enough variants to at least get the S4/ early 32 valvers started and ready for tuning. John Davis is planning on swapping in MS into his 83 track car (stock 83 Ljet with Euro heads and headers), so that map will also be available for use too.

There is a thread here somewhere, in which I document the track car build up with costs etc... If you can't find it I'll see if I can dig it up..

BC

This has been the plan all along for me, but it doesn't count here, as its not going to use anything original in the wiring or fuel department. Its just a 78 body and an 89 motor.

UncleMaz

Thanks Colin.

It is a matter of cost in my mind's eye. Let's say I can get the completely resealed motor with, all accessories, wiring, including MS for around 3k. The motor also has had the HG, WP and TB done by someone I know. The motor has 76k on it. Can I put together a hybrid motor, pay machine costs to refresh (parts will undoubtedly be used), complete engine gasket replacement, updated pulleys, MS, etc., etc, for less than 3k. From my limited reading here, it does not seem so. However, I am open to it. I have not bought the motor yet.

Seems to me to be a best of all worlds. Reliable daily driver with 300+ crank horsepower, OB looks (I like more), something different (the car is already a Frankencar/S Body work, etc.). The work seems to me to be about the same too.

Everyone seems to **** on the US 4.5 motor as is. Like a lot of others (Ducman and Iwanna928 in particular) seem to be jonzing for more HP. I figure I would like to build a car for enjoyment - not resale since a whole bunch of time and effort will be going into this car no matter what.

Makes sense. I have thought about the DADT. I am hoping I can get an audience with the local Smog referee and use the 78 as a point of reference in case VINs are discussed . Ultimately, going to the referee is not the end of the world so I hear. I would prefer to be legit for a daily driver. So if I need to pay for a sequence of inspections, so be it. I once put my salvaged Jeep on the road. It was a bit of a time suck, but no hardship. There is also the wink and a nudge visual inspection station places so I have heard .

Thanks for the details. I hope I can rely on you and other knowledgeable folks to get this done if I decide to move forward. If you can find that thread, that would be helpful.

Brendan, is your plan to have this as a road or track car. If road going, have you looked into hoops for smog and subsequent registration? Thanks.

BC

It is currently still planned for the road. The smog and registration issues are even more complex for me, as I have the Supercharger and A/A intercooler from the Wisconsin Guy. So that, mixed COP, headers, and aftermarket ECU - I have only a few, slim options.

1) I register the car as one of those 500 a year only deals in CA - where you wait in line to get a certificate and its for all sorts of cars including kit-cars.
2) I put it all together and attempt to register it.
3) I simply drive the damn thing to Wisconsin, where my family has residence, and register it there.
4) Bribes.

The intake will LOOK custom, there is little I can do about that, as well many other pieces of the car.

Tom. M

Here's the cost thread...
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...track-car.html

If you search under my user name you will also find other threads discussing the 928's transformation..

Cheers,
Tom

UncleMaz

Font of good info. Thanks.
Sounds like a cool project.

Update: I am purchasing the S4 motor. The seller is giving me a package deal on both brains (he has to get the fuel dme), engine harness, body harness and s4 CE. Given concerns about cost of tuning, my limited skills in this area (among others), and since the interior (including dash and pod) are already out of the car, I am going to use the stock engine management system and put the work into re-wiring the chassis as well as the engine compartment. While I realize this is going against conventional wisdom here, I think I can rewire the car as I have done this to my 944. MS conversations on here go completely over my head. Also, I don't mind doing the work and dread the idea of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to tune the car. If it was going to be a race car, I would definitely consider aftermarket though. Tom M. has been kind enough to point out some of the differences in early to late dash and lighting changes between harnesses, but that seems like small potatoes to chasing down an electrical gremlin because I miss wired something in the ignition system or grenade the motor with less than professional work. Finally, if I want to go aftermarket at some point, I am sure I will be able to recoup some of my expenditures by selling the stock brains.

My saga really begins....

BC

Well, if anything, it will get the car on the road quicker - that (above all things) can be very important.

danglerb

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARR...uidelines.html

Technically in Calif unless you rebuild the original engine using only original factory parts it is supposed to be inspected by a referee station. The referee checks the block ID, and part numbers and version numbers of all the smog equipment, as well as a typical smog inspection.

If you google "California engine change" you will get a host of links to various information sources.

Jags and Jeeps have been doing engine swaps for decades with hundreds and hundreds of vehicles, and many companies selling support parts. There success does not apply to the 928. Several people have spoken up about doing this, but where are all the street driven success stories? I think there are more successful Chevy conversions than S4 to OB swaps.

My view is yes it can be done, no it won't be anything easy or cheap, but mainly are the end results especially desirable? If so, where are all the cars this has been done to?

mark kibort

If you are considering the euro 2valve, 5 liter option and want the costs, Ive done it a couple of times.
basically, its a used 5 liter 85 short block. re -ring it and re bearing it, with stock stuff. (just labor and the parts which are pretty cheap). (you dont even really need to balance it, as you would not be really changing anything to any consequence) Then, knotch the pistons ( you could do this by hand, or have the shop do it. I have the templates for the cuts and they are pretty shallow (i.e. .175" deep, let me know if you want copies of them). thats basically it.

oh, yeah, buy the euro top end stuff (heads and euro intake) and bolt it all together. there you go, 300 wrhp on the cheap. no need to mess with wiring, but if you had ALL that stuff and could figure out how to make any changes to stuff that connected to the relay panel, then it would be a cool transplant. for me, it sounds scary, but I stay very close to the stock line, if you know what I mean. .

best of luck!! have fun!

mk

UncleMaz

The SBC Chevy swap is reserved for my NA 944 .

Mike, how can I get 100 or so reliable horse power for around $3500 before my own labor? If I buy a whole Euro motor, what smog issues will I have then? What will need to be done to it? As mentioned earlier, after machine costs gaskets and seals, Euro parts, 4.7/5.0 shortblock, I am sure I am looking at every bit of $3500. I really do not care how many people have done it before. I like the idea if I can get it to work. I am pretty sure I can.

Anyway, too late. I took the plunge.

UncleMaz

Thanks Mark. The wiring won't be fun, but it is doable. Don't you think the parts and machining will cost me about the same or more for a Hybrid motor as described? Can't you squeeze some more HP out of the S4 motor with a good tune whereas the hybrid motor/2 valve motors are harder to squeeze via tuning? BTW, I will be running Amsoil.

genikz

I see you bit the bullet! Joe and I are looking at weekends in July to come up and assist with whatever is next on your list.

Joe is fantastic at wiring and diagrams. He's got parts on the Int'l Space Station if I'm not mistaken...