Time to Brag again
#16
Rennlist Member
Anthony, I think the car is finally ready. I'd love to do it but I don't know the first thing about them. If you're going to be at most of them maybe you can let me know and you can get me started?
Meadowlands sounds awesome! Do I have to be a PCA member? (I've let my membership lapse). What about the inspection? Do I need a fire extinguisher?
RKD,
Sorry for the partial hijack, but you started it by bragging! 2 seconds faster for your students is big. Congrats!
Meadowlands sounds awesome! Do I have to be a PCA member? (I've let my membership lapse). What about the inspection? Do I need a fire extinguisher?
RKD,
Sorry for the partial hijack, but you started it by bragging! 2 seconds faster for your students is big. Congrats!
We do have an X class for non Porsche's most of these guys are hard core SCCA AX nuts. Amazing skill levels and many events come down to 0.01x sometimes even 0.00x seconds difference to compete for FVD but it is all about the fun factor which is the best for the $$.
RKD looks like you have a fun program.
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I always start with...
Adjusting your seat, knees bent and thigh off seat at full pedal travel, arm straight forward, back against seat, you can rest your wrist on the top of the steering wheel.
Cam locking your seat belt.
Proper grip and handling of the steering wheel. 9 and 3 with hand over after 180 degrees rotation. Taught with 8 and 4 shuffle for street and air bag cars.
I tell my students to focus on technique and NOT how fast they are going. The idea is to develop good habits and to react without thinking. This is so once they learn to control the car without thinking they can think about where they want the car to go instead of how they are getting it there.
I don't teach "enter slow, exit fast". It is typically good place for novices to start because they tend to understeer on turn in you also tell them to brake in a straight line, but is more of a older 911/911 turbo thing because of the rear weight bias of the car. I teach my students to let turn in simple oversteer do some of the braking so you can brake as late as possible. That's why I really stress using the skid pad for getting used to handling the car in a drift.
Adjusting your seat, knees bent and thigh off seat at full pedal travel, arm straight forward, back against seat, you can rest your wrist on the top of the steering wheel.
Cam locking your seat belt.
Proper grip and handling of the steering wheel. 9 and 3 with hand over after 180 degrees rotation. Taught with 8 and 4 shuffle for street and air bag cars.
I tell my students to focus on technique and NOT how fast they are going. The idea is to develop good habits and to react without thinking. This is so once they learn to control the car without thinking they can think about where they want the car to go instead of how they are getting it there.
I don't teach "enter slow, exit fast". It is typically good place for novices to start because they tend to understeer on turn in you also tell them to brake in a straight line, but is more of a older 911/911 turbo thing because of the rear weight bias of the car. I teach my students to let turn in simple oversteer do some of the braking so you can brake as late as possible. That's why I really stress using the skid pad for getting used to handling the car in a drift.
Last edited by RKD in OKC; 03-15-2010 at 01:27 PM.
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I autocrossed my stock BMW X3 and beat a 914-6 on competition slicks by .003 for FTD. The X3 did not accelerate very quick, and braking sucked, but MAN that thing could corner like nobody's business. My speed through the slalom part of the course was a full 10 mph faster than any my Porsches. I was more surprised than anyone at my times. The guy in the 914 got really pissed off and hasn't been back.
#19
Rennlist Member
I always start with adjusting your seat, cam locking your seat belt, and proper grip and handling of the steering wheel. I tell my students to focus on technique and NOT how fast they are going. The idea is to develop good habits and to react without thinking. This is so once they learn to control the car without thinking they can think about where they want the car to go instead of how they are getting it there.
I don't teach "enter slow, exit fast". It is a good place for novices to start because they tend to understeer on turn in, but is more of a older 911/911 turbo thing because of the rear weight bias of the car.
I don't teach "enter slow, exit fast". It is a good place for novices to start because they tend to understeer on turn in, but is more of a older 911/911 turbo thing because of the rear weight bias of the car.
#20
Rennlist Member
I autocrossed my stock BMW X3 and beat a 914-6 on competition slicks by .003 for FTD. The X3 did not accelerate very quick, and braking sucked, but MAN that thing could corner like nobody's business. My speed through the slalom part of the course was a full 10 mph faster than any my Porsches.
One of our best AX's is a petite young lady that has taken 1st place at the Nationals. It doesn't matter what car she is behind the wheel of she is routinely fast and amazing to watch.
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Our autocross events are more about fun and driver education than competition. We always have 4 or 5 good instructors available to jump in and take a ride when we see someone struggling or pushing too much.
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm also considering making my first appearance at an AutoX although I intend to use my DD (Speed3) which is FWD. The goal for me is to learn the cars capabilities, have fun and most importantly learn car control. I'm nervous about how much extra wear I will be putting on the brakes/tires but I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll need to replace these items more often.
Richard thank you for posting the proper seating position, this has always been a question for me since I matured enough to realize that sitting as far as possible from the steering wheel doesn't help with car control. I will have to adjust my seating position in both of my cars using your description.
Regarding the hand position on the steering, I have been using 10 and 4 for years now and I find it awkward when I try to switch. Any advice on this or do I just need to push myself to make the change? Note that I often drive with one hand when I'm not pushing the car, I realize this is a big no no.
Richard thank you for posting the proper seating position, this has always been a question for me since I matured enough to realize that sitting as far as possible from the steering wheel doesn't help with car control. I will have to adjust my seating position in both of my cars using your description.
Regarding the hand position on the steering, I have been using 10 and 4 for years now and I find it awkward when I try to switch. Any advice on this or do I just need to push myself to make the change? Note that I often drive with one hand when I'm not pushing the car, I realize this is a big no no.
#24
Rennlist Member
Nice job!
By the way, there are no sections of any race track that I visit where the 928 is at a disadvantage, except with radical side to side high speed "S" transisitions. most all slow parts of the track, the 928 hands with just about anyone. When you see the video of the 928 lemons racer in the turn 7 area of sears. Like an autox, you can see thats where it really shines. (slow speed, hard braking hard exit areas.. kind of like an auto x)
By the way, there are no sections of any race track that I visit where the 928 is at a disadvantage, except with radical side to side high speed "S" transisitions. most all slow parts of the track, the 928 hands with just about anyone. When you see the video of the 928 lemons racer in the turn 7 area of sears. Like an autox, you can see thats where it really shines. (slow speed, hard braking hard exit areas.. kind of like an auto x)
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hand position...
Without air bags the proper hand placement is at 9 and 3. This lets you rotate the steering wheel a full 180 degrees without having to re-grip the wheel. It is plenty of turning for most corners. For tighter corners you move the hand that is loosing grip to the just above the other hand and continue turning. The thing to practice is getting the hand you moved back to the original position as you unwind the wheel. This method also lets you know exactly how much steering input you have and when your wheels are pointed straight ahead.
For air bag cars a 8 and 4 or 7 and 5 position is recommended. When turning you move BOTH hands up gripping with only the hand that moves the wheel in the desired direction. When both hands reach the top of the wheel, you re-grip with the other hand and move both hands down. When both hands reach the bottom, re-grip and move them up again. This is called shuffle steering. The goal of this technique is to keep your arms from ever getting between your face and the air bag. If the air bag deploys and your hand is past the 12 o'clock position, your arm becomes a projectile hitting you in the face with the full force of the air bag.
I personally find shuffle steering feels loose and very difficult to be smooth and fast with steering inputs. I need more practice at it. Currently I would say I am more likely to have an accident that would deploy the air bag shuffle steering than I would hand over hand steering.
Without air bags the proper hand placement is at 9 and 3. This lets you rotate the steering wheel a full 180 degrees without having to re-grip the wheel. It is plenty of turning for most corners. For tighter corners you move the hand that is loosing grip to the just above the other hand and continue turning. The thing to practice is getting the hand you moved back to the original position as you unwind the wheel. This method also lets you know exactly how much steering input you have and when your wheels are pointed straight ahead.
For air bag cars a 8 and 4 or 7 and 5 position is recommended. When turning you move BOTH hands up gripping with only the hand that moves the wheel in the desired direction. When both hands reach the top of the wheel, you re-grip with the other hand and move both hands down. When both hands reach the bottom, re-grip and move them up again. This is called shuffle steering. The goal of this technique is to keep your arms from ever getting between your face and the air bag. If the air bag deploys and your hand is past the 12 o'clock position, your arm becomes a projectile hitting you in the face with the full force of the air bag.
I personally find shuffle steering feels loose and very difficult to be smooth and fast with steering inputs. I need more practice at it. Currently I would say I am more likely to have an accident that would deploy the air bag shuffle steering than I would hand over hand steering.
#26
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm definitely going to need to work on that, that doesn't sound like anything I'm doing now. To be honest I have never really paid attention to how I move my hands on the steering wheel. I really need to get into a controlled environment and practice.
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Most people that consider themselves hot shot drivers (but haven't actually raced or autocrossed) drive with their left hand at the top of the wheel and their right hand on the shifter. When you tell them to keep both hands on the wheel they morph into your 10 and 4 position. I guess because 4 seems closer to the shifter.
#28
Rennlist Member
With close to 100 cars per event and 7-8 runs in a day it is a busy event, although very social and always geared towards fun and healthy competition.
#29
Rennlist Member
IMO, forget the shuffle steer. the chance of it causing an accident is far greater than the chance of you getting in one with your arms crossed up.
Hand position...
Without air bags the proper hand placement is at 9 and 3. This lets you rotate the steering wheel a full 180 degrees without having to re-grip the wheel. It is plenty of turning for most corners. For tighter corners you move the hand that is loosing grip to the just above the other hand and continue turning. The thing to practice is getting the hand you moved back to the original position as you unwind the wheel. This method also lets you know exactly how much steering input you have and when your wheels are pointed straight ahead.
For air bag cars a 8 and 4 or 7 and 5 position is recommended. When turning you move BOTH hands up gripping with only the hand that moves the wheel in the desired direction. When both hands reach the top of the wheel, you re-grip with the other hand and move both hands down. When both hands reach the bottom, re-grip and move them up again. This is called shuffle steering. The goal of this technique is to keep your arms from ever getting between your face and the air bag. If the air bag deploys and your hand is past the 12 o'clock position, your arm becomes a projectile hitting you in the face with the full force of the air bag.
I personally find shuffle steering feels loose and very difficult to be smooth and fast with steering inputs. I need more practice at it. Currently I would say I am more likely to have an accident that would deploy the air bag shuffle steering than I would hand over hand steering.
Without air bags the proper hand placement is at 9 and 3. This lets you rotate the steering wheel a full 180 degrees without having to re-grip the wheel. It is plenty of turning for most corners. For tighter corners you move the hand that is loosing grip to the just above the other hand and continue turning. The thing to practice is getting the hand you moved back to the original position as you unwind the wheel. This method also lets you know exactly how much steering input you have and when your wheels are pointed straight ahead.
For air bag cars a 8 and 4 or 7 and 5 position is recommended. When turning you move BOTH hands up gripping with only the hand that moves the wheel in the desired direction. When both hands reach the top of the wheel, you re-grip with the other hand and move both hands down. When both hands reach the bottom, re-grip and move them up again. This is called shuffle steering. The goal of this technique is to keep your arms from ever getting between your face and the air bag. If the air bag deploys and your hand is past the 12 o'clock position, your arm becomes a projectile hitting you in the face with the full force of the air bag.
I personally find shuffle steering feels loose and very difficult to be smooth and fast with steering inputs. I need more practice at it. Currently I would say I am more likely to have an accident that would deploy the air bag shuffle steering than I would hand over hand steering.
#30
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
This is all great stuff.
Anthony, I'll check the northern NJ PCA for that clinic and hopefully get into it.
I've been putting this and DEs off for way too long now. At least in AX I'll only be killing cones if I screw up, so that won't be too bad. I'm sure trying to learn the course is going to be the biggest hurdle for me in the beginning.
I've known for a long time that the limiting factor anytime I drive my car is the loose nut behind the wheel. My car seems to be able to handle anything I throw at it and with the new brakes I just put on, I'll have to re-learn how to drive again (Anthony you may remember a certain back road in PA where I almost launched over you and your GTS when you decided to test the brakes. ).
You mentioned running in the right car/skill level. Clearly I'll have to pick one.
I'm starting to get psyched.
Who wants to do an R-list 928 GTG at an Autocross this spring?
Anthony, I'll check the northern NJ PCA for that clinic and hopefully get into it.
I've been putting this and DEs off for way too long now. At least in AX I'll only be killing cones if I screw up, so that won't be too bad. I'm sure trying to learn the course is going to be the biggest hurdle for me in the beginning.
I've known for a long time that the limiting factor anytime I drive my car is the loose nut behind the wheel. My car seems to be able to handle anything I throw at it and with the new brakes I just put on, I'll have to re-learn how to drive again (Anthony you may remember a certain back road in PA where I almost launched over you and your GTS when you decided to test the brakes. ).
You mentioned running in the right car/skill level. Clearly I'll have to pick one.
I'm starting to get psyched.
Who wants to do an R-list 928 GTG at an Autocross this spring?