BC

Great work.

robot808

Tony is a stud.

So that is Euro "U" that you are using?

toofast928

Hi Bob. Yep that is the Euro "U" heavily modified. I wanted to minimize any boost leak areas, so welded up any unused ports or elimination of intake O Rings.

Lizard928

Tony,
Why not just modify the center plenum with a throttle body sticking right off the back and just have your silicone 90 attach onto it eliminating all the extra junk underneath.

Bill Ball

Sweet!

toofast928

Because I like the look of the OEM spider intake. Don't what to make it look like a Frankenstein.

Thanks all. Engine is idling very nicely and easy to rev. A/F at idle speed is sweeping over 14:1. Couldn't do that before with the original ignition.
Strange to see the timing marks dead on with no fluctuation. Even if I rotate the distributor while the engine is running the timing stays at 12 deg. Very Cool.

toofast928

Update:
Wiring of Haltech has been completed for some time now. Had some trouble with the GM stepper motor, burned out two motors. Now have the OEM Aux Air Valve (bi-metallic strip) installed. Works perfect for cold starts. Ignition map is dialed in and the low RPM torque is impressive. When data recording I can actually record RPM flares after clutch engagements (wheel spin).

One thing to note is as I kept backing off timing, the oil consumption and blow-by pressure kept diminishing, (under boost). Spark plug reading kept reveling some detonation. (The detonation rocks the piston in the bore breaking the piston ring to cylinder wall seal.) I believe the blow-by problem is exaggerated with single distributor blown 16V because everyone advanced the ignition timing. It’s not the total timing that causes detonation. It’s that timing advance comes on too fast at very low RPMs. Ignition timing should start at at 10 deg at 800 RPM –no vacuum (as manual states), turning the distributor and advancing 4 deg makes this setting 14 deg and things get worse as RPM increases.

Fuel map is 95% complete. I drove the car 1 hour 4x a week for 2 weeks, data logging and watching the A/F meter, then reviewing the data logs and making small adjustments. The hardest part about tuning was learning metric pressure and temperatures, converting them to Vacuum, PSI, and Fahrenheit. You can set Haltech to “Imperial” but when reviewing data recordings not all maps are in imperial. Made things confusing so I just tuned in metric. Idle A/F is 13:1 as the 16v like a rich idle. Under boost I found 11.5 was ok but 12:1 the engine is more much responsive and pulls harder. 12:1 is as far as I dare go. Another thing I noticed is the leaner the A/F the more quiet the exhaust became. Before tuning the exhaust drone nose was so bad thought I would have to reconfigure the pipes. Now after tuning drone noise is none existent. In fact in 5th gear 70 MPH just hear wind noise.
Some notes for Haltech followers:

• Using 60-2 flywheel tone ring trigger angle is 84, offset 12. (That just saved you days of trial and error)
• Throttle Pump Delay set to 2
• For smoother idle set O2 switching at 1000 RPM
• Deaccel Fuel Cut at 1300 RPM. Provides good engine braking.
• Don’t use GM Stepper motor for idle control. Just use solenoid air bypass valve and use idle screw for engine hot idle setting.
• Fuel map has interpolation, before and after cells have an effect on the cell you’re working with
• Throttle Pump settings (same as acceleration pump) squirt a lot of fuel. Over adjustment will make the engine buck like ignition miss. I have 3000 RPM setting at 20% because of the amount of air being used by the blower for full throttle stabs above 3k RPM.
• If you’re working with a 5sp. Add more fuel in the 1K-1.5K low vacuum cells so the engine won’t run lean taking on the load.
• Spark plug I’m using is Bosch WR7DC+ gapped at .035”. Heat range is perfect and MSD keeps the tip clean.
• Haltech is set to start pulling ignition timing if charge air exceeds 130f.
• I removed the dash pod and made the OX! Warning lamp a shift light.
• Haltech will turn off A/C compressor at my desired RPM and MAP Pressure. Wired in two relays for A/C control, (why two relays? Haltech needs a ground input).
• 36# injectors are at 80% duty cycle @ 55000 RPM, 6# boost. Base fuel PSI set at 46. 42# injectors would be a better choice but don’t know if idle quality would suffer.

Mike LaBranche

Man, that is awesome. Modern electronics, classic V-8, timeless body. Mind if drop my 84 off for a few weeks? The second one has got to go much easier...

Fantastic stuff.

Mike
84 black
80 white

toofast928

NP Mike, come on by New Jersey. You, Me , and Snookie can have a beer at the shore.

G Man

Looks like removing the casting may benefit anyone who has a spider intake. Is this casting present on all years that use the spider?

Lizard928

The trigger angle chould be 60 deg if put on in the factory positioning or using an S4 flywheel. The offset is nearly an adjustment of the trigger angle.

There are 4 cyl guys running 85 lb hr injectors and big turbos that have good idle.
For my setup I have siemens 60 lb hr injectors, and I have no concerns about idle quality.

For the air control I would recommend the Bosch 2 wire pwm valve found on most VW. They are a great valve that will allow for closed loop idle control.
This means that when you kick in the AC the idle won't drop. Or if you are loading the engine slowly with the clutch it will prevent the car from stalling.

The low vacuum fuel cells for idle to 1200 rpm are always difficult to dial in. But what you need to focus on more is the accel enrich. You don't want to compensate for accel enrich by adding fuel to those cells or you will create a lean pocket during other driving condition.

Thanks for the update though. And I know that you understand about the steep learning curve now.

Lizard928

Yes and yes.

928 obsession

Very informative thread. Really looking foward to the final results.

hacker-pschorr

Imagine that

https://rennlist.com/forums/7623468-post8.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/6663035-post55.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/6481504-post99.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/6458603-post67.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/6152806-post31.html

I guarantee most boosted motors that were damaged was due to too much timing. The blow-by is an early warning for those without knock sensors.

Some people need to learn the hard way I suppose.

Good job with the conversion, looks very well done!!!

terry gt

very intresting seeing someone else do a haltek set up . I had a E6 running on my car for about 10 years , changed up to the E8 on my 16V stroker about 5 years ago . Used a sensor on the cam to run the sequencial fuel injection . 36# injectors / msd unit / igniters / coil . load control by map . velocity stack into the throtle body . Water temp is in the x over housing . dist is locked . Terry