[tech] - LA area engine/performance shop has Forged JE pistons for Alusil
10-22-2009, 09:39 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Lindsey Racing rebuilt my 951 motor that had Nikasil and cratered. They bored it out to get rid of the Nikasil and went with coated JE Pistons on the Alusil. The head lifted and burned a hole in the head gasket at 4500 miles. When the engine was torn down the cylinder walls were scratched to heck. This was just before they went to Wiseco pistons.
A question: Is it really cheaper to rebore an alusil cylinder than get it nikasil coated? The steps in alusil boring, including the chemicals and whatnot, are pretty involved. I understand that some people don't want to do anything to the bores and want to get pistons that can run safely on the existing alusil bores. That would be a cost saving if it can be done safely. However, once one is boring the cylinder anyway, isn't Nikasil and gas nitrided steel rings the obvious choice?
10-22-2009, 10:12 AM
#17
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Is it really cheaper to rebore an alusil cylinder than get it nikasil coated? The steps in alusil boring, including the chemicals and whatnot, are pretty involved. I understand that some people don't want to do anything to the bores and want to get pistons that can run safely on the existing alusil bores. That would be a cost saving if it can be done safely. However, once one is boring the cylinder anyway, isn't Nikasil and gas nitrided steel rings the obvious choice?
10-22-2009, 11:18 AM
#18
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I called and emailed Mahle and KS about pistons for our cars about 2 years ago. Mahle said they could do the ferroprint which "is as good as the original coating", but apparently isn't according to Greg and others. KS said they could do the original coating but wouldn't deal with me or a small shop because it is not worth it to them.
10-22-2009, 11:19 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
I'm done trying crap like this....but wish you good luck! The makers are going to prove to me it works, for me to believe it. I'm done trying people's crap on my dime....and it always ends up being my dime...or my 10K, in this case! I'm not resistant to change....I'm resistant to eating other people's unproven theories.
I've yet to see a coating that works, other than the plating that the factory has Mahle and KS put on their pistons.....pure and simple.....end of story.
I'm redoing an engine, right now (on my 10K) that Mahle made the pistons for. They swore that they would work perfectly in an Alusil bore. Had the fricking engineer, on the phone, in a 3 way conversation with SSF (who had the pistons made). Coating fell off in 1000 miles. Pistons dug into the bores...junk. Of course, by the time the engine was done, it was over a year, so Mahle's claiming the warranty period is over and they are not responsible. They refuse to pay for the repair, or the damage. Corporate bull**** pisses me off....they screwed up...not me...they should fix it!!!!
They'll end up not paying and I'll "eat" someone's screw up....again. The only satisfaction I get is that I had a set of Mahle Pistons that I bought for a big block Chevy I'm building. Bought them brand new. After the Porsche thing, I walked out to the dumpster and threw them in the fricking trash. Screw Mahle...they'll find out that in this country, when you screw someone, people just quit using your crap...and you go out of business. Many have gone down this road....all fail!
I've redone two of Theshie's engines with "proven" coatings that worked....neither one made it over 100 miles. Who did this coating?
Nicosil is what I'm doing. Had to send the "Mahle Screwed Up" block off to get it Nicosil coated. I've got engines with many miles on them, now...no issues with Nicosil. Yes, if you use the wrong rings, you might have trouble....but this is not the Nicosil's fault!
I've yet to see a coating that works, other than the plating that the factory has Mahle and KS put on their pistons.....pure and simple.....end of story.
I'm redoing an engine, right now (on my 10K) that Mahle made the pistons for. They swore that they would work perfectly in an Alusil bore. Had the fricking engineer, on the phone, in a 3 way conversation with SSF (who had the pistons made). Coating fell off in 1000 miles. Pistons dug into the bores...junk. Of course, by the time the engine was done, it was over a year, so Mahle's claiming the warranty period is over and they are not responsible. They refuse to pay for the repair, or the damage. Corporate bull**** pisses me off....they screwed up...not me...they should fix it!!!!
They'll end up not paying and I'll "eat" someone's screw up....again. The only satisfaction I get is that I had a set of Mahle Pistons that I bought for a big block Chevy I'm building. Bought them brand new. After the Porsche thing, I walked out to the dumpster and threw them in the fricking trash. Screw Mahle...they'll find out that in this country, when you screw someone, people just quit using your crap...and you go out of business. Many have gone down this road....all fail!
I've redone two of Theshie's engines with "proven" coatings that worked....neither one made it over 100 miles. Who did this coating?
Nicosil is what I'm doing. Had to send the "Mahle Screwed Up" block off to get it Nicosil coated. I've got engines with many miles on them, now...no issues with Nicosil. Yes, if you use the wrong rings, you might have trouble....but this is not the Nicosil's fault!
Well, I guess I will have to investigate more. I thought it was done. I wish I could SEE these coatings, in person. I think it would be helpful. But you are doing yet another block NOW, so its the present and its still an issue.
Thanks again.
*****
The 2000 was including all the shipping from this coast to the Wisconsin Cheeseland. If its less, I'd like to know how much less.
10-22-2009, 11:28 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
10-22-2009, 12:33 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
The previous owner of my 951 did the Nikasil and installed the stock rings. At around 20K the nikasil was chipping off the tops of the bores. Lindsey Racing has a local machine shop they use that can do Alusil. I don't remember what the cost was for the cylinder repair, but after talking to the 911 racing mechanic about his experiences with Nikasil I decided to go back to the stock cylinder material.
The head lift was not due to excessive boost. The motor was bored and stroked up to a 2.8 with 8.5:1 compression. The racing valve springs were sized for 18 psi of boost on a 2.5L 8:1 motor. To keep the valve springs in their operating range I never ran over 16 psi of boost.
The head lift was not due to excessive boost. The motor was bored and stroked up to a 2.8 with 8.5:1 compression. The racing valve springs were sized for 18 psi of boost on a 2.5L 8:1 motor. To keep the valve springs in their operating range I never ran over 16 psi of boost.
10-22-2009, 01:53 PM
#22
Former Sponsor
I called and emailed Mahle and KS about pistons for our cars about 2 years ago. Mahle said they could do the ferroprint which "is as good as the original coating", but apparently isn't according to Greg and others. KS said they could do the original coating but wouldn't deal with me or a small shop because it is not worth it to them.
They said they were not responsible...the warranty was over...it had been more than a year.
What does time have to do with the coating falling off?
10-22-2009, 01:54 PM
#23
Former Sponsor
Lindsey Racing rebuilt my 951 motor that had Nikasil and cratered. They bored it out to get rid of the Nikasil and went with coated JE Pistons on the Alusil. The head lifted and burned a hole in the head gasket at 4500 miles. When the engine was torn down the cylinder walls were scratched to heck. This was just before they went to Wiseco pistons.
10-22-2009, 01:58 PM
#24
Former Sponsor
Well, that was my concern, Greg. Thanks for your info. I'm not into change for the sake of change, obviously. I do like to believe people though - when they say something new works. It part of my nature. Yes, I have been shafted a few times.
Well, I guess I will have to investigate more. I thought it was done. I wish I could SEE these coatings, in person. I think it would be helpful. But you are doing yet another block NOW, so its the present and its still an issue.
Thanks again.
*****
The 2000 was including all the shipping from this coast to the Wisconsin Cheeseland. If its less, I'd like to know how much less.
Well, I guess I will have to investigate more. I thought it was done. I wish I could SEE these coatings, in person. I think it would be helpful. But you are doing yet another block NOW, so its the present and its still an issue.
Thanks again.
*****
The 2000 was including all the shipping from this coast to the Wisconsin Cheeseland. If its less, I'd like to know how much less.
10-22-2009, 02:02 PM
#25
Former Sponsor
Nicasil can be tough to do, apparently. Mahle had a batch of RSR cylinders, back in the air cooled RSR days, that the coating came off of. Screwed up a bunch of engines....but those are race engines....no warranty on race stuff.
10-22-2009, 02:06 PM
#26
Former Sponsor
If the head lifts because of the boost reaching federal budget deficit levels, the cylinder tower may twist itself to a pretzel shape and the scratching may be due to that.
A question: Is it really cheaper to rebore an alusil cylinder than get it nikasil coated? The steps in alusil boring, including the chemicals and whatnot, are pretty involved. I understand that some people don't want to do anything to the bores and want to get pistons that can run safely on the existing alusil bores. That would be a cost saving if it can be done safely. However, once one is boring the cylinder anyway, isn't Nikasil and gas nitrided steel rings the obvious choice?
A question: Is it really cheaper to rebore an alusil cylinder than get it nikasil coated? The steps in alusil boring, including the chemicals and whatnot, are pretty involved. I understand that some people don't want to do anything to the bores and want to get pistons that can run safely on the existing alusil bores. That would be a cost saving if it can be done safely. However, once one is boring the cylinder anyway, isn't Nikasil and gas nitrided steel rings the obvious choice?
10-22-2009, 02:10 PM
#27
Former Sponsor
The "factory" stuff is a coating that is deposited electrically, from what I have been able to learn. Everything else, that I've seen is a "spray" on coating.
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I know that a coating failed in Wisconsin as well. It was the print coating that is discussed here.
I THOUGHT that the coating was now different. More like the swain PC-9 coating. I will still use that coating, but it may be on JE pistons in an already nikasiled bore.
I guess I may have to get another engine and spread out the cost more.
10-22-2009, 02:16 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
10-22-2009, 02:18 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am trying to find the website.