Kibort/ Sharktoberfest
09-14-2009, 08:55 PM
#46
Former Sponsor
There are several ways to build a race car. Sure, I would love to take the chassis to a bunch of low paid laborers and strip off the undercoating to save those 10lbs. 
(when I did about 10% of the bottom of the car in the body shop WITH the right tools, the 1 ft tall pile of the stuff on the bottom was only a little over a pound!).
Anyway, it goes back to a clear set of goals. Nothing I have EVER built has ever surprised or let me down. I want another 1:37 Laguna car, any more, I cant aford to build and its much more than just the undercoating to be removed. It would be tough to build something slower if I tried. Mark and Joe run 1:31-2s now, and have 150 more HP. They also are running real slicks and have much wider stances, but Joeseph's is not to far off my car, but with the HP and the wider stance using slicks. Due to this sport not being my profession and very limited funds and resourses, Im going to do what I did before, which is put the drivetrain in a stock chassis and bolt on a street sport suspension. I will then gut it, cage it and paint it. after that Ill put on some my go fast tweeks and bolt ons, and thats about it. I dont think there is anything wrong with that, but certainly ,if I had the time and funds to do it, I would do what Mark did with his chassis, put bars going everwhere, dry sump the motor, hiem joint all the suspension points, start ordering slicks, instead of using free DOTs and then run with PCA boys!
Bottomline, the way Im doing it is a little old school, but thats why many on the list are helping, just to make sure I dont cut too many corners!
If those skipped steps are really bothering you, I'll pour beers for you at Sharktoberfest, while you man the air chizel and we remove some undercoating.
(when I did about 10% of the bottom of the car in the body shop WITH the right tools, the 1 ft tall pile of the stuff on the bottom was only a little over a pound!).Anyway, it goes back to a clear set of goals. Nothing I have EVER built has ever surprised or let me down. I want another 1:37 Laguna car, any more, I cant aford to build and its much more than just the undercoating to be removed. It would be tough to build something slower if I tried. Mark and Joe run 1:31-2s now, and have 150 more HP. They also are running real slicks and have much wider stances, but Joeseph's is not to far off my car, but with the HP and the wider stance using slicks. Due to this sport not being my profession and very limited funds and resourses, Im going to do what I did before, which is put the drivetrain in a stock chassis and bolt on a street sport suspension. I will then gut it, cage it and paint it. after that Ill put on some my go fast tweeks and bolt ons, and thats about it. I dont think there is anything wrong with that, but certainly ,if I had the time and funds to do it, I would do what Mark did with his chassis, put bars going everwhere, dry sump the motor, hiem joint all the suspension points, start ordering slicks, instead of using free DOTs and then run with PCA boys!
Bottomline, the way Im doing it is a little old school, but thats why many on the list are helping, just to make sure I dont cut too many corners!
If those skipped steps are really bothering you, I'll pour beers for you at Sharktoberfest, while you man the air chizel and we remove some undercoating.
How about I pour the beer and you can do the work? I've done the actual work to build a car, so many times in my life, that I'm probably better "used" to think and point than to do the actual labor. I can see things that aren't right from across the shop....in the dark.
gb
09-14-2009, 09:26 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
I would be honored to pour that beer and take direction, with the air chizel, sawzal, or Axe .
I think the point I was tryng to make, and I think you know this already, is that the car as is, with minimal prep and MOSTLY stock parts, is pretty good as I have shown. One concern is the weight in the sunroof top, which I would want to swap with a non sunroof top by welding one in soon! Kind of the celebration here in the honor of the Holbert car, was that it ran like it did, being driven to the track, with no mods but a set of headers and some bolt on street/sport suspension package.. BUT, if there is a way to save 10 or 100lbs, im all ears. It all ads up and helps.
I have full expectation that if we get the drive train in and I gut the car at home and cage it, it will be ready to race after a simple alignment. (but it will be painted first in honorary red first )
So, do I need to bring the Axe? Hey, that reminds me. that lower bell housing cover will be there, maybe we can make a nice hinged- hatch for adjusting those pesky "H" adjusters on the dual disc clutch.
now, dont cringe, but im bringing down my metwrench and mikta.
mk
.I think the point I was tryng to make, and I think you know this already, is that the car as is, with minimal prep and MOSTLY stock parts, is pretty good as I have shown. One concern is the weight in the sunroof top, which I would want to swap with a non sunroof top by welding one in soon! Kind of the celebration here in the honor of the Holbert car, was that it ran like it did, being driven to the track, with no mods but a set of headers and some bolt on street/sport suspension package.
. BUT, if there is a way to save 10 or 100lbs, im all ears. It all ads up and helps.I have full expectation that if we get the drive train in and I gut the car at home and cage it, it will be ready to race after a simple alignment. (but it will be painted first in honorary red first
)So, do I need to bring the Axe? Hey, that reminds me. that lower bell housing cover will be there, maybe we can make a nice hinged- hatch for adjusting those pesky "H" adjusters on the dual disc clutch.
now, dont cringe, but im bringing down my metwrench and mikta.
mk
Thanks, Mark.
How about I pour the beer and you can do the work? I've done the actual work to build a car, so many times in my life, that I'm probably better "used" to think and point than to do the actual labor. I can see things that aren't right from across the shop....in the dark.
gb
How about I pour the beer and you can do the work? I've done the actual work to build a car, so many times in my life, that I'm probably better "used" to think and point than to do the actual labor. I can see things that aren't right from across the shop....in the dark.
gb
09-25-2009, 11:06 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
I'm in for Sharktober fest.
We are waiting for some type word from Brumos if they are going to take on the Holbert project which will determine how much of the Holbert car will remain at Mark's after the engine transfer to the donor chassis. If they dont come through, more than likely, the only thing that wll remain at 928intl will be the damaged tub.
Are you guys still in for giving a hand in this transfer of "stuff" to the donor chassis?
Bill, you coming down??
Thanks,
Mark
We are waiting for some type word from Brumos if they are going to take on the Holbert project which will determine how much of the Holbert car will remain at Mark's after the engine transfer to the donor chassis. If they dont come through, more than likely, the only thing that wll remain at 928intl will be the damaged tub.
Are you guys still in for giving a hand in this transfer of "stuff" to the donor chassis?
Bill, you coming down??
Thanks,
Mark
09-26-2009, 05:49 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
Can we also get Kibort to drag himself to Sharktoberfest? I would like to meet him.
Actually, Hacker GET YOUR *** TO LA TOO! We have a bunch of great contributors on the right coast (and in Wisconsin) and I would love to see some of them come out. I am glad I spent some time in Texas if for no other reason then i got to meet a bunch of the great Dallas gang, would love to meet some of the people I know from here that attend the SITM and Sharks in Hell stuff that i can never manage to get to.
09-30-2009, 04:36 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the offers to help!
So, so far we have Mike, Bill B.,Bill S., Ryan, "Hold on" , "BBX", for the transplant project
Ill be there on Friday AM, so Ill start digging in then.
Ive ageed to buy what is left of the Donor car from Mark to do the transfer. Most everything on the holbert car now will remain for Ed as he is working on how it gets shipped to the east coast.
Thanks again. You guys are the best!
Mark
some comments below:
>>>>> I think now, that wont happen, which is better for everyone. the reconstruction of the chassis, might have the cage, after all it is still in great shape and is a decent cage.
>>>>Ill be down on friday morning if you are around. it would be great to see you!
I FINALLY, got the short shaft off the torque tube. I spread the clamp a little with a beefy screwdriver and that didnt seem to help. just a large pry bar and a lot of force , mm by mm, it finally came loose. the torque tube seems to spin pretty easily, and the short shaft looks fine. I have a feeling, since the bell housing is cracked with a 1-2mm gap ONLY on one side, that the alignment is off, and that would explain the effort to get the shafts apart. maybe I dodged a bullet there and all will work fine, once we separate engine and chassis. i wanted to start it up with the short shaft disconnected but that might be bad if that short shaft walks out of the pilot bearing , so I wont be doing that. based on the difficulty of the short shaft coming out of the coupling, i would bet that the engine TB is ok and most of the damage, if any would be limited to the pilot bearing or short shaft. we will see.
Let me know if you can bring one up. I might have a torque tube and upper bell housing this week though. Ill let you know.
Ill be down there!!
You are the man!!
So, so far we have Mike, Bill B.,Bill S., Ryan, "Hold on" , "BBX", for the transplant project
Ill be there on Friday AM, so Ill start digging in then.
Ive ageed to buy what is left of the Donor car from Mark to do the transfer. Most everything on the holbert car now will remain for Ed as he is working on how it gets shipped to the east coast.
Thanks again. You guys are the best!
Mark
some comments below:
Marks--
Possible to get the car down earlier in that week? I can spare days during the week but that weekend is pretty much a bust for projects. That would give time to get the frame rails stretched at a local place if necessary, and get the old driveline out on the floor using the lift, all in advance of the Big Weekend Crew coming to do the mass assembly. Drivelines come out in hours if they are removed intact, right?
Possible to get the car down earlier in that week? I can spare days during the week but that weekend is pretty much a bust for projects. That would give time to get the frame rails stretched at a local place if necessary, and get the old driveline out on the floor using the lift, all in advance of the Big Weekend Crew coming to do the mass assembly. Drivelines come out in hours if they are removed intact, right?
If an early arrival, even like a week early was possible, I bet we could get a removal crew together so that most of the moving around of big pieces was finished before STF?
What a few people might get done during the week could easily exceed what gets done with 100+ during the weekend.
What a few people might get done during the week could easily exceed what gets done with 100+ during the weekend.
The bell housing upper has to be the weak link in the chain between the engine block and transmission, so a violent impact that tried to rotate or move the block relative to the trans would I guess crack the bellhousing before the TT bent. Once the bell housing is deformed/cracked there is then the possibility of bending the central shaft or the intermediate shaft. My guess is that if the misalignment of the block to the TT is not too severe the central shaft will be OK as they are quite elastic. You may want to examine the clamp and intermediate shaft and pilot bearing very carefully though.
I'll Volunteer
Can we also get Kibort to drag himself to Sharktoberfest? I would like to meet him.
Actually, Hacker GET YOUR *** TO LA TOO! We have a bunch of great contributors on the right coast (and in Wisconsin) and I would love to see some of them come out. I am glad I spent some time in Texas if for no other reason then i got to meet a bunch of the great Dallas gang, would love to meet some of the people I know from here that attend the SITM and Sharks in Hell stuff that i can never manage to get to.
Can we also get Kibort to drag himself to Sharktoberfest? I would like to meet him.
Actually, Hacker GET YOUR *** TO LA TOO! We have a bunch of great contributors on the right coast (and in Wisconsin) and I would love to see some of them come out. I am glad I spent some time in Texas if for no other reason then i got to meet a bunch of the great Dallas gang, would love to meet some of the people I know from here that attend the SITM and Sharks in Hell stuff that i can never manage to get to.
You are the man!!
09-30-2009, 04:43 PM
#54
Team Owner
when you pull the engine you should atleast pull the oil pan off to inspect the the thrust bearing.
The crash damage could have cracked the main bearing web, I hope not, but now is the time, so that means draining the oil and the coolant from the engine
The crash damage could have cracked the main bearing web, I hope not, but now is the time, so that means draining the oil and the coolant from the engine
09-30-2009, 04:51 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I think most of the force was lateral, and due to my cracked rib from the side of my seat and nothing more, i would bet the engine could handle more lateral Gs than me! . I think you might be talking about the block structure around the main bearing breaking? I guess if you think about it, there is not much structure to keep the crank from moving forward besides that structure. But, because the the damage is mostly to the side of the car, hitting tires at at a 45 degree angle, I would think that the crank didnt have much force directly forward, expecially since I survived the crash without the normal belt marks on the shoulders, just the sore neck. anyway, it probably is a good idea wwait.
mk
. I think you might be talking about the block structure around the main bearing breaking? I guess if you think about it, there is not much structure to keep the crank from moving forward besides that structure. But, because the the damage is mostly to the side of the car, hitting tires at at a 45 degree angle, I would think that the crank didnt have much force directly forward, expecially since I survived the crash without the normal belt marks on the shoulders, just the sore neck. anyway, it probably is a good idea wwait.mk
09-30-2009, 05:38 PM
#56
Team Owner
Yes the web structure inside the block, i know that the webs are all supported by the girdle but if the bell housing broke then the driveshaft may have been pushed forward and or sideways, and this would have possible imparted a force into the crank, and also to consider is that the transaxle would have been the force that was placed on the driveshaft
09-30-2009, 05:49 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
also great points. I think the side impact just treated the drive line like a toothpic, bent in half, obviously, there was some rear to front forces for sure. if the transmission and TT are less rigid than the engine, then certainly it could put pressure on the crank and pilot bearing. i guess one sign will be to look at the pilot bearing and see if it is mashed, as i dont think the end of the short shaft can contact the crank unless the pilot bearing is crushed. also, you would think that the torque tube would not let the forces really be applied to the crank, as it has a structure that kind of makes the transmission , TT housing and bell housing one piece. Just thinking out loud here, but the only force that should have been applied to the crank would be the crank itself, and the drive shaft, which is kind of held in place via the 5th gear connection and any thrust bearing it has. if there is damage to the TB in the engine, i would suspect bearing damage the 5th gear output to the TT, right? Anyway, sounds like we are going to do some checking when this thing is apart.
Thanks for advice!
Mark
Thanks for advice!
Mark
Yes the web structure inside the block, i know that the webs are all supported by the girdle but if the bell housing broke then the driveshaft may have been pushed forward and or sideways, and this would have possible imparted a force into the crank, and also to consider is that the transaxle would have been the force that was placed on the driveshaft
09-30-2009, 06:25 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
09-30-2009, 07:01 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Myself and my son who is a mechanic by trade, will be rolling out of Phoenix about 6am on Friday. My trip planner tells me its about 360 miles to LaLa Land. Its all highway Rt 10 so we intend to be there before noon. Looking forward to seeing everyone again. Kevin