Drilling S3 Cam Cover Bolt (Done)
08-31-2009, 10:07 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Drilling S3 Cam Cover Bolt (Done)
Or tips how-to.?
In situ.
Its one of the center bolts. I have already drilled-out the bolt, but its slightly off center. Need a way to perfectly position the oversize drill for the timesert.
Reinstall cam cover and use it as a guide?
In situ.
Its one of the center bolts. I have already drilled-out the bolt, but its slightly off center. Need a way to perfectly position the oversize drill for the timesert.
Reinstall cam cover and use it as a guide?
Last edited by Landseer; 09-04-2009 at 08:19 AM.
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the boatyard installing the mast and engine, we don't need a crane, we harness the mesquito's! Yeah!
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Now that you have started off center it makes it real hard - almost impossible - to get it back centered.
08-31-2009, 10:49 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK, so maybe the cover with an insert is the answer. Thanks, Mike. Should I buy one of the $29.00 one piece bolts to replace the broken old-style?
It was nearly perfect.
Until I reached for the easy-out.
20 minutes for the hole, 60 seconds to break the hardened piece in the hole, followed by 11 or so hours of grinding.
Should have used the right size to start, else over-drilled, but noooooo.
So the lucky uninitiated can follow this job,
Here's the good, will skip the bad, and FWIW, I'll go take a picture of the ugly in a few minutes:
It was nearly perfect.
Until I reached for the easy-out.
20 minutes for the hole, 60 seconds to break the hardened piece in the hole, followed by 11 or so hours of grinding.
Should have used the right size to start, else over-drilled, but noooooo.
So the lucky uninitiated can follow this job,
Here's the good, will skip the bad, and FWIW, I'll go take a picture of the ugly in a few minutes:
08-31-2009, 11:12 PM
#4
Team Owner
get a welder and weld a nut onto the remaining metal, it should then screw out.
Good job with the paper towels cut a piece of cardboard to put over the head if you go the welder route
Good job with the paper towels cut a piece of cardboard to put over the head if you go the welder route
08-31-2009, 11:14 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Too late for that.
Used dremel with little diamond / abrasive bits. Lots of them. I think I kept all the grit out.
And here's the resultant ugly.
Its pretty deeply drilled, actually, though it doesn't show.
Need to fix this little problem. Am thinking about building a little guide jig that could bolt firmly under the timing chain tensioner bolts.
Used dremel with little diamond / abrasive bits. Lots of them. I think I kept all the grit out.
And here's the resultant ugly.
Its pretty deeply drilled, actually, though it doesn't show.
Need to fix this little problem. Am thinking about building a little guide jig that could bolt firmly under the timing chain tensioner bolts.
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08-31-2009, 11:35 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the boatyard installing the mast and engine, we don't need a crane, we harness the mesquito's! Yeah!
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That isn't that bad...
Get a micro torch - heat the bolt - use a left hand twisted drill bit! The chances are the threads will pull up with the bit. Even as you remove a little of the off center thread, you can still take a dental pick and remove the remaining thread. Use a high quality thread lock.
You can either make your new base by threading key stock and using all-thread, or simply buy the long bolt.
I have a milwaukee angle head drill that "just" fits between the A/C line and the bolt .
Note to self...
Don't buy a used car from this guy.
Get a micro torch - heat the bolt - use a left hand twisted drill bit! The chances are the threads will pull up with the bit. Even as you remove a little of the off center thread, you can still take a dental pick and remove the remaining thread. Use a high quality thread lock.
You can either make your new base by threading key stock and using all-thread, or simply buy the long bolt.
I have a milwaukee angle head drill that "just" fits between the A/C line and the bolt .
Note to self...
Don't buy a used car from this guy.
09-01-2009, 01:49 AM
#9
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Your not going to believe this...
Sean (zoltan944) just did the EXACT same thing a few days ago. Same bolt broke (two actually), and after one was drilled, another forum member broke the hardened tip of an easy out in it (his name is not Luan). I tried drilling it, but the bits weren't working on the hardened tip. So we picked up a dremel and with the help of a few diamond tips and abrasive bit, I was able to drill the bolt out completely.
After I drilled the other bolt, we decided an easy out would be too risky and took it out by drilling. We had to use one of those Milwaukee 90degree drill attachment to reach the bolt.
Sean (zoltan944) just did the EXACT same thing a few days ago. Same bolt broke (two actually), and after one was drilled, another forum member broke the hardened tip of an easy out in it (his name is not Luan). I tried drilling it, but the bits weren't working on the hardened tip. So we picked up a dremel and with the help of a few diamond tips and abrasive bit, I was able to drill the bolt out completely.
After I drilled the other bolt, we decided an easy out would be too risky and took it out by drilling. We had to use one of those Milwaukee 90degree drill attachment to reach the bolt.
09-01-2009, 02:13 AM
#10
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
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You guys learned the hard way to avoid the (not so) "Easy Out". I learned a similar lesson and the value of the Dremel diamond-tipped bits about 9 years ago.
09-01-2009, 07:09 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
I've sheared a few cam cover bolts off below the surface.. well, 4, out of two cars I've done the intake job on.
After the first learning experience, the first thing I do now is center-punch the stuck bolt shank to make it easier to start drilling in the center.
Next, heat it.. small butane torch with focussed beam is the go for this, followed by some penetrating oil, and if you've got it, freeze spray.
Then center punch again for good measure, and to shock it a bit more.
After that, I drill it using progressively larger left-handed drill bits. Start small, and drill all the way through the shank on the first drill bit, to weaken the integrity of the stuck piece all the way through, so it can deform on any stuck threads.
Then once through, step up to another left-threaded drill bit, and make the hole larger.
I haven't made it further than the second left-threaded drill bit.. twice its come out before I even drilled through the shank with the first thin bit, the other two times, the stuck piece has magically unscrewed while the second drill bit was about half-way through.
I've heard plenty of horror stories here and elsewhere on easy-outs. I've used one once, and haven't used them since, as I've found the left-threaded drill bits way handier (water pump bolts too!)
After the first learning experience, the first thing I do now is center-punch the stuck bolt shank to make it easier to start drilling in the center.
Next, heat it.. small butane torch with focussed beam is the go for this, followed by some penetrating oil, and if you've got it, freeze spray.
Then center punch again for good measure, and to shock it a bit more.
After that, I drill it using progressively larger left-handed drill bits. Start small, and drill all the way through the shank on the first drill bit, to weaken the integrity of the stuck piece all the way through, so it can deform on any stuck threads.
Then once through, step up to another left-threaded drill bit, and make the hole larger.
I haven't made it further than the second left-threaded drill bit.. twice its come out before I even drilled through the shank with the first thin bit, the other two times, the stuck piece has magically unscrewed while the second drill bit was about half-way through.
I've heard plenty of horror stories here and elsewhere on easy-outs. I've used one once, and haven't used them since, as I've found the left-threaded drill bits way handier (water pump bolts too!)
09-01-2009, 09:32 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I'm guessing the 86.5's went to the updated bolts? I just did the intake refresh and was pleasantly surprised to see the updated bolts in there after hearing all the horror stories likes this about the old style.
09-04-2009, 08:51 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
W/respect to Brendan's request a while back that we finish the project threads we start...
Fixed with one section of Helicoil 6 X 1.0. Had them, couldn't find timeserts locally.
I cleaned up the hole with a cylindrical diamond dremel bit & dremel
I packed the head with wax paper to protect the parts. I used a shop vac every couple minutes (should have rigged it to run continuously)
Tried to remove the highspots of the remaining parts of the bolt.
Used a LH drillbit some, and a RH drillbit some, to pick-out pieces of bolt thread.
Did not use power drill, instead, chucked bits into a manual tap-turner T-handle.
Drill bits kept "catching". Have had drill bits break on over drilling. Use a clutch chuck if you do it.
Got the hole profiled better, and about the same diameter as the helicoil drill bit, then ran the Helicoil tap. The oversized tap is shown below, alongside a bolt-sized 6 X 1.0 tap for reference. (I never knew about helicoils till I adopted this sport) . Its not as deep as original, but it's gonna have to do. Am not going to risk ****ing it up again.
Now, will construct a new "base" as Firemed calls it. Drill-out and put a new stud in the stand-off piece, then screw it into the helicoil. Gonna use blue loctite on end of stud goiing into head, red loctite for stud end going into base.
I will never, ever overstress an easy-out again. Should have used heat and care.
Also, found a thread on removing broken WP bolts where Greg gave lots of pro advice https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-problems.html (that I should have taken, along with Lizzards) .
As it is, this ended-up far better than I thought it would.
Fixed with one section of Helicoil 6 X 1.0. Had them, couldn't find timeserts locally.
I cleaned up the hole with a cylindrical diamond dremel bit & dremel
I packed the head with wax paper to protect the parts. I used a shop vac every couple minutes (should have rigged it to run continuously)
Tried to remove the highspots of the remaining parts of the bolt.
Used a LH drillbit some, and a RH drillbit some, to pick-out pieces of bolt thread.
Did not use power drill, instead, chucked bits into a manual tap-turner T-handle.
Drill bits kept "catching". Have had drill bits break on over drilling. Use a clutch chuck if you do it.
Got the hole profiled better, and about the same diameter as the helicoil drill bit, then ran the Helicoil tap. The oversized tap is shown below, alongside a bolt-sized 6 X 1.0 tap for reference. (I never knew about helicoils till I adopted this sport) . Its not as deep as original, but it's gonna have to do. Am not going to risk ****ing it up again.
Now, will construct a new "base" as Firemed calls it. Drill-out and put a new stud in the stand-off piece, then screw it into the helicoil. Gonna use blue loctite on end of stud goiing into head, red loctite for stud end going into base.
I will never, ever overstress an easy-out again. Should have used heat and care.
Also, found a thread on removing broken WP bolts where Greg gave lots of pro advice https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-problems.html (that I should have taken, along with Lizzards) .
As it is, this ended-up far better than I thought it would.
03-01-2010, 04:57 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
I've sheared a few cam cover bolts off below the surface.. well, 4, out of two cars I've done the intake job on.
After the first learning experience, the first thing I do now is center-punch the stuck bolt shank to make it easier to start drilling in the center.
Next, heat it.. small butane torch with focussed beam is the go for this, followed by some penetrating oil, and if you've got it, freeze spray.
Then center punch again for good measure, and to shock it a bit more.
After that, I drill it using progressively larger left-handed drill bits. Start small, and drill all the way through the shank on the first drill bit, to weaken the integrity of the stuck piece all the way through, so it can deform on any stuck threads.
Then once through, step up to another left-threaded drill bit, and make the hole larger.
I haven't made it further than the second left-threaded drill bit.. twice its come out before I even drilled through the shank with the first thin bit, the other two times, the stuck piece has magically unscrewed while the second drill bit was about half-way through.
I've heard plenty of horror stories here and elsewhere on easy-outs. I've used one once, and haven't used them since, as I've found the left-threaded drill bits way handier (water pump bolts too!)
After the first learning experience, the first thing I do now is center-punch the stuck bolt shank to make it easier to start drilling in the center.
Next, heat it.. small butane torch with focussed beam is the go for this, followed by some penetrating oil, and if you've got it, freeze spray.
Then center punch again for good measure, and to shock it a bit more.
After that, I drill it using progressively larger left-handed drill bits. Start small, and drill all the way through the shank on the first drill bit, to weaken the integrity of the stuck piece all the way through, so it can deform on any stuck threads.
Then once through, step up to another left-threaded drill bit, and make the hole larger.
I haven't made it further than the second left-threaded drill bit.. twice its come out before I even drilled through the shank with the first thin bit, the other two times, the stuck piece has magically unscrewed while the second drill bit was about half-way through.
I've heard plenty of horror stories here and elsewhere on easy-outs. I've used one once, and haven't used them since, as I've found the left-threaded drill bits way handier (water pump bolts too!)
Hilton,
Thanks for this post, I have a few of these bastards and im looking forward to the methods you described above.
Can someone point me in the right direction of finding replacement "Stand off bolts"?