Automatic Track Car (Racers, Please offer some advice?)
08-22-2009, 11:00 PM
#1
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Automatic Track Car (Racers, Please offer some advice?)
Could someone with some experience using an automatic 928 on the track share their opinion on it?
I heard from a very reliable source that a certain, [highly respected] 928 engine builder feels the automatic 928 is just as fast on the track as a manual. I wouldn't know, but it just seems you would have so much more control of a manual.
Anyways, I bought an early 87 to track, but also keep the bare essentials to drive daily.
It's an automatic with LSD and racing suspension (it was autocrossed by another 928 enthusiast)
What type of class could I enter this car into? I know nothing about rules, or regulations. I would like to keep the engine stock, as building it up would be out of my budget for this car (I would rather use the funds for my 79 restoration)
I would also like to completely gut it (I like the look...lol)
Well, if anyone can steer me in the right direction, i would greatly appreciate it!
BB
I heard from a very reliable source that a certain, [highly respected] 928 engine builder feels the automatic 928 is just as fast on the track as a manual. I wouldn't know, but it just seems you would have so much more control of a manual.
Anyways, I bought an early 87 to track, but also keep the bare essentials to drive daily.
It's an automatic with LSD and racing suspension (it was autocrossed by another 928 enthusiast)
What type of class could I enter this car into? I know nothing about rules, or regulations. I would like to keep the engine stock, as building it up would be out of my budget for this car (I would rather use the funds for my 79 restoration)
I would also like to completely gut it (I like the look...lol)
Well, if anyone can steer me in the right direction, i would greatly appreciate it!
BB
08-22-2009, 11:10 PM
#2
It may work great. You would want to makes sure you could detente the 4 speeds so it would operate manually.
08-22-2009, 11:21 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
It already has a transmission cooler...
You don't have to shift it by hand though having access to the kick down switch (other than at full throttle travel) is a GOOD thing.
Change the trans fluid REGULARLY! As in every 8 to 10 events I would say...
If you are ACTUALLY racing the car you probably are going to be outclassed. The early cars in 5spd form are pretty good the later cars go to heavy. Also you will need to check the RULES VERY CAREFULLY to see what you can do and can't do to the suspension. If you are not COMPLETELY stripping the car you will have to run in a stock class and there are BIG limits to what you can do...at least for PCA Club Racing.
Now if you are just talking about doing DE's then knock yourself and do whatever you want to the car.
Oh, my race car is an automatic... if I could drive a standard I would do that though...
You don't have to shift it by hand though having access to the kick down switch (other than at full throttle travel) is a GOOD thing.
Change the trans fluid REGULARLY! As in every 8 to 10 events I would say...
If you are ACTUALLY racing the car you probably are going to be outclassed. The early cars in 5spd form are pretty good the later cars go to heavy. Also you will need to check the RULES VERY CAREFULLY to see what you can do and can't do to the suspension. If you are not COMPLETELY stripping the car you will have to run in a stock class and there are BIG limits to what you can do...at least for PCA Club Racing.
Now if you are just talking about doing DE's then knock yourself and do whatever you want to the car.
Oh, my race car is an automatic... if I could drive a standard I would do that though...
08-22-2009, 11:33 PM
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Thanks James!
I was hoping you would chime in! So, where can you suggest to look for rules on what's legal for each class? Sorry for all the questions this is new to me and pretty overwhelming.
James, got any footage of your car at the track? i would like to watch how an automatic approaches and carries out of a corner.
I was hoping you would chime in! So, where can you suggest to look for rules on what's legal for each class? Sorry for all the questions this is new to me and pretty overwhelming.
James, got any footage of your car at the track? i would like to watch how an automatic approaches and carries out of a corner.
08-22-2009, 11:38 PM
#7
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I've shifted mine manually for all of the 130K miles I've put on it over 10 years. Zero problems. Only problem I ever had on the track was downshifting too aggressively in one turn when I was distracted by a closely following driver. Scared him a bit. Now that I have the supercharger, I just leave it in 3rd on the track. That's good for anything up to 120. If I need to, I put it into 4th.
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08-22-2009, 11:57 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
You need to think about with whom you might want to race and then get the rule book for those organizations.
Before that you need to get the car running and take in a few years of DE. Get to some schools. Spend some time carting. Do some learning about how to handle the car at high speeds in tight corners and how to do it with other cars on the track.
I suggest getting the car into top mechanical shape so that it can be run at the track reliably. Plenty of time to through $$$$ at it once you know where you want to go with it.
Before that you need to get the car running and take in a few years of DE. Get to some schools. Spend some time carting. Do some learning about how to handle the car at high speeds in tight corners and how to do it with other cars on the track.
I suggest getting the car into top mechanical shape so that it can be run at the track reliably. Plenty of time to through $$$$ at it once you know where you want to go with it.
08-23-2009, 06:57 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
I think the 1st gear switch is used to force the car to start in 1st instead of 2nd gear economy mode.
Other mods actually make the tranny manually shifted, if I understand it right. What I believe you want to avoid is a torque change from a shift in the middle of some turn.
My view is maybe twisted, on the street where sane people want the ease of an automatic, I want teenage shifting, and on the track where people want all out 5 spd efficient power delivery, I have no hope of teaching my feet how to heel toe while holding the line through a turn, and would prefer to skip the clutch and focus on steering.
Until you KNOW what you want to race, stick to DE and time trials, and focus on fun, learning, and cheaper operation.
Other mods actually make the tranny manually shifted, if I understand it right. What I believe you want to avoid is a torque change from a shift in the middle of some turn.
My view is maybe twisted, on the street where sane people want the ease of an automatic, I want teenage shifting, and on the track where people want all out 5 spd efficient power delivery, I have no hope of teaching my feet how to heel toe while holding the line through a turn, and would prefer to skip the clutch and focus on steering.
Until you KNOW what you want to race, stick to DE and time trials, and focus on fun, learning, and cheaper operation.
08-23-2009, 07:56 AM
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I had an 1986.5 928S auto which was prepped for track work. I bought it and completely gutted it and started doing Porsche Driver's Education (DE) days with it. Climbed up to a Solo driver status and had a blast. The auto doesn't give much if anything anyway to manual cars at that level. You will have to be careful of the kick down since it can upset the car when you get fast enough to dance on the edge of adhesion where any little change could send you off the track.
Later on I changed the car to a 5 speed. During the change I understood completely why manual cars need to be raced. Much simpler, less parts and lighter. Everything you would want in a track car. This same car was raced by Mark Anderson at Sebring a few years back and it kicked butt in the GT2S class until the engine gave up on the last lap of the sprint race! It's now Abby's (Normal) track toy.
One other thing, driving an auto does not let you practice heel/toe driving techniques to develop this skill set for later racing a manual.
If your main goal is to go have fun with a 928 on the track, an automatic is fine. If you want to climb up to actual racing, a manual car is the way to go.
Just my $00.02 worth,
Later on I changed the car to a 5 speed. During the change I understood completely why manual cars need to be raced. Much simpler, less parts and lighter. Everything you would want in a track car. This same car was raced by Mark Anderson at Sebring a few years back and it kicked butt in the GT2S class until the engine gave up on the last lap of the sprint race! It's now Abby's (Normal) track toy.
One other thing, driving an auto does not let you practice heel/toe driving techniques to develop this skill set for later racing a manual.
If your main goal is to go have fun with a 928 on the track, an automatic is fine. If you want to climb up to actual racing, a manual car is the way to go.
Just my $00.02 worth,
08-23-2009, 12:53 PM
#13
Eventually, I do believe that manual cars will go away to make room for "flappy paddle" transmissions.
08-23-2009, 01:55 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Blythe,
The 928 EVOLUTION DVD has about a lap and a half of my S4 but little actual ON TRACK of my race car. The in and out video of car race car shots on the "closed course" (ie. my neighborhood with cones blocking both ends of the street) is also on that DVD...
You might want to PM me for PayPal instructions and I'll put one in the mail to you...
For rules you probably need to be a member of Porsche Club of America to download them, but you might just do a search for "Porsche Club Racing Rules"... BTW, if you have not done THOUSANDS of miles of DE track events, and/or a VERY INTENSE PRO driving school, jumping in to actual door handle to door handle racing would be a VERY, VERY bad idea...
The 928 EVOLUTION DVD has about a lap and a half of my S4 but little actual ON TRACK of my race car. The in and out video of car race car shots on the "closed course" (ie. my neighborhood with cones blocking both ends of the street) is also on that DVD...
You might want to PM me for PayPal instructions and I'll put one in the mail to you...
For rules you probably need to be a member of Porsche Club of America to download them, but you might just do a search for "Porsche Club Racing Rules"... BTW, if you have not done THOUSANDS of miles of DE track events, and/or a VERY INTENSE PRO driving school, jumping in to actual door handle to door handle racing would be a VERY, VERY bad idea...