Missing lost or stolen 928 parts in the U.S Please help find them
07-22-2009, 05:44 PM
#136
Welcome Popeye.
07-22-2009, 05:49 PM
#138
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I'll take that bet. Some of us on here can actually spell '928'.
07-22-2009, 05:57 PM
#140
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This seems like a pretty unlikelyscenario -- someone who has not only seen the heads, but also happens to be a 928 celebrity heretofore unexposed, and exposed just at this opportune moment. Yes I knew everything you said in your post ... conversely, there appears to be nothing untrue in this post either.
I'm new to this Forum, but Greg's apparent intent is to canvas this small enthusiast group for mis-appropriated parts and unreliable sellers. This is a fairly common procedure that I've seen on Hemmings and other sites. It works, as the only people interested in the special parts are the enthusiasts.
Unlike most of you, I have had the opportunity to inspect the heads in question. I also have examined the photos that Greg took of the heads before shipping. My observations, based on this information are:
1) Greg modified the GT heads shipped from Australia to improve cooling. The heads I inspected do not have the modification illustrated in the photographs. Based on this discrepacy, my opinion is that the heads in question are not the same parts that were shipped from Australia.
2) There are additional areas of concern including incomplete machining operations and maching that is suspect. These parts will need CMM measurements against a reference sample to determine if they
are actually usuable in a properly functioning 928 engine. The concern here is that these heads are actually leftovers from a bad machining operation.
I have other data from Greg regarding his abilities with 928 heads. He's managed to achieve flow numbers with standard two valve 928 heads that are on par with some of the Nascar heads used in the late 1980's! This may not seem impressive to some, but trust me, he's in very good company when
it comes to skill with cylinder heads. Its all the more reason for his concern that the special parts that he shipped have been mis-appropriated.
And who am I? Most of you don't know me, but I've been an automotive Design Engineer for 35 years and a car racer and builder for much longer that that. I can honestly say that you may not know me, but as car guys you do know what I've worked on. And what is that, you ask? Well, starting at the
beginning, my first job as an Engineer was at BF Goodrich R&D in the early 1970's. We were working on a new concept in tires; a 50 series performance radial. You probably know it as the original TA radial. We managed to go 200 mph on the Greenwood Corvette at Le Mans, when most of the
world was still rolling to work on bias tires.
Those are just good memories now, but after 30 yrs as a chassis engineer in Dearborn, I'm now incorporated to work on a high end hybrid where most of the engineering management is German, having come from BMW and Porsche. I actually report to people that helped design the original 928
chassis, in addition to their many other accomplishments at Porsche. Bet you didn't know the original 2 valve prototype engines displaced around 5.5 liters, and it was the fuel crisis of that era that knocked the displacement down to 4.5 liters?
Didn't mean for this to be so long. Please let Greg know if you have any information on these heads.
Unlike most of you, I have had the opportunity to inspect the heads in question. I also have examined the photos that Greg took of the heads before shipping. My observations, based on this information are:
1) Greg modified the GT heads shipped from Australia to improve cooling. The heads I inspected do not have the modification illustrated in the photographs. Based on this discrepacy, my opinion is that the heads in question are not the same parts that were shipped from Australia.
2) There are additional areas of concern including incomplete machining operations and maching that is suspect. These parts will need CMM measurements against a reference sample to determine if they
are actually usuable in a properly functioning 928 engine. The concern here is that these heads are actually leftovers from a bad machining operation.
I have other data from Greg regarding his abilities with 928 heads. He's managed to achieve flow numbers with standard two valve 928 heads that are on par with some of the Nascar heads used in the late 1980's! This may not seem impressive to some, but trust me, he's in very good company when
it comes to skill with cylinder heads. Its all the more reason for his concern that the special parts that he shipped have been mis-appropriated.
And who am I? Most of you don't know me, but I've been an automotive Design Engineer for 35 years and a car racer and builder for much longer that that. I can honestly say that you may not know me, but as car guys you do know what I've worked on. And what is that, you ask? Well, starting at the
beginning, my first job as an Engineer was at BF Goodrich R&D in the early 1970's. We were working on a new concept in tires; a 50 series performance radial. You probably know it as the original TA radial. We managed to go 200 mph on the Greenwood Corvette at Le Mans, when most of the
world was still rolling to work on bias tires.
Those are just good memories now, but after 30 yrs as a chassis engineer in Dearborn, I'm now incorporated to work on a high end hybrid where most of the engineering management is German, having come from BMW and Porsche. I actually report to people that helped design the original 928
chassis, in addition to their many other accomplishments at Porsche. Bet you didn't know the original 2 valve prototype engines displaced around 5.5 liters, and it was the fuel crisis of that era that knocked the displacement down to 4.5 liters?
Didn't mean for this to be so long. Please let Greg know if you have any information on these heads.
07-22-2009, 06:02 PM
#141
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Facts, not opinions
Well put popeye, and a nice 1st post.
Since you're new here (that's not a put down BTW), you haven't seen how a completely innocent and purposeful thread will degrade to a he said-she said, name-calling, popularity-based, pissing contest. The reactionary comments by those that just read a couple of posts (not the whole thread), has caused many here to have to repeat and clarify -to the point any 3-year old could understand.
Unfortunately, it is not just this thread...
A lot of us here want to contribute to this community in a positive, constructive way -and specifically want to help Greg get to the bottom of this. He is not the victim here, and only wants to get to the bottom of this himself -as any ethical person would.
But, as mentioned earlier in this thread -this thread's direction has gone from Greg wanting to find the parts and reverse the chain of custody to discover the culprit(s) involved and provide the un-named owner the 'proof' for legal action.... to what has become the aforementioned pissing contest dogpile.
This is beating a dead horse -if the posters feel the need to continually interject their own self-serving opinions.
What is needed here is "Just the facts, ma'am."
Since you're new here (that's not a put down BTW), you haven't seen how a completely innocent and purposeful thread will degrade to a he said-she said, name-calling, popularity-based, pissing contest. The reactionary comments by those that just read a couple of posts (not the whole thread), has caused many here to have to repeat and clarify -to the point any 3-year old could understand.
Unfortunately, it is not just this thread...
A lot of us here want to contribute to this community in a positive, constructive way -and specifically want to help Greg get to the bottom of this. He is not the victim here, and only wants to get to the bottom of this himself -as any ethical person would.
But, as mentioned earlier in this thread -this thread's direction has gone from Greg wanting to find the parts and reverse the chain of custody to discover the culprit(s) involved and provide the un-named owner the 'proof' for legal action.... to what has become the aforementioned pissing contest dogpile.
This is beating a dead horse -if the posters feel the need to continually interject their own self-serving opinions.
What is needed here is "Just the facts, ma'am."
Last edited by White Lightnin'; 07-25-2009 at 02:26 PM. Reason: this is now post #149
07-22-2009, 06:15 PM
#143
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07-22-2009, 06:15 PM
#144
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07-22-2009, 06:18 PM
#145
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This is beating a dead horse -if the posters feel the need to continually interject their own self-serving opinions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The seller of the stolen parts that Greg Gray is trying to locate should be banned.
Somebody has just been skimming the posts, huh?
Seller #1: Greg Gray
Buyer #1: Un-named, health-challenged victim #1
Receiver #1: Un-named company (but just identified)
Seller #2: Unidentified person that should be banned -if an RL member, and legal action against
Buyer #2: Unidentified recipient of stolen goods and therefore, victim #2.
I think those are all of the players, as told so far."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The seller of the stolen parts that Greg Gray is trying to locate should be banned.
Somebody has just been skimming the posts, huh?
Seller #1: Greg Gray
Buyer #1: Un-named, health-challenged victim #1
Receiver #1: Un-named company (but just identified)
Seller #2: Unidentified person that should be banned -if an RL member, and legal action against
Buyer #2: Unidentified recipient of stolen goods and therefore, victim #2.
I think those are all of the players, as told so far."
07-22-2009, 06:25 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Your quotes of my statements are clarifications of another's misinterpretations of mine and other members' postings.
Hence, my comment of "those that just read a couple of posts (not the whole thread)".
Greg's OP is to the point... skimming, or speed-reading I suspect, has lead to most of the misunderstanding in this thread.
Last edited by White Lightnin'; 07-25-2009 at 02:25 PM. Reason: this is now post #154
07-22-2009, 06:40 PM
#147
We had a choice?
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Things, haven't changed much lately......
07-22-2009, 07:46 PM
#149
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So, the pictures can't be posted. A stateside expert in the twilight of his or her career is feeding the belief the design stumbled-upon is revolutionary to the industry based on photos and numbers? Worth trillions. Applicable to everything from minivans to vegas to LTDs. Heck, even this White Lightening guy is going to buy sets to send to Junior Johnsons clan in Roaring River so they can outrun the black and whites.
The design can't be reproduced because it was emipirically-derived by machinists in Australia, but they are on walkabout for three years and might not remember what they did? Dog ate my homework.
Guys, modern fast prototyping methods can easily reproduce features you have in photos.
I'm with Heinrich, am on the lookout for the parts. Will PM one of you if I see them.
What did they look like again?
The design can't be reproduced because it was emipirically-derived by machinists in Australia, but they are on walkabout for three years and might not remember what they did? Dog ate my homework.
Guys, modern fast prototyping methods can easily reproduce features you have in photos.
I'm with Heinrich, am on the lookout for the parts. Will PM one of you if I see them.
What did they look like again?
Last edited by Landseer; 07-22-2009 at 10:41 PM. Reason: spelling. perfect post otherwise
07-22-2009, 08:19 PM
#150
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I don't think I've posted in this thread yet......