928 Racecar Photos...
05-28-2009, 12:54 PM
#31
The Parts Whisperer
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05-28-2009, 01:11 PM
#32
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Jason,
I keep coming back to this thread and your website. The pics are amazing and show a TON of work has already gone into this car.
I really hope you are able to finish and enjoy it on the track. This one has potential to become an infamous track car.
Here's my fav pic...
I keep coming back to this thread and your website. The pics are amazing and show a TON of work has already gone into this car.
I really hope you are able to finish and enjoy it on the track. This one has potential to become an infamous track car.
Here's my fav pic...
05-28-2009, 05:29 PM
#33
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Thank you for the compliments...am doing my best to get it done and yes, lots of work. Will get after it and post some more pictures as progress is made. If anyone knows of a race car in Indiana, wold be need to see the "Gold" car again. Cheers, J
05-28-2009, 07:08 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Now though (I have not raced it since the rules change) I will probably be with the slower group of PCA club racers so I ought to have a SHOT at some of those guys anyway.
05-28-2009, 10:04 PM
#35
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Jason,
If your dad is still in Port Angeles and woudn't mind a caravan of 928's showing up to take him out to breakfast some weekend, I think it could definitely be arranged.
If your dad is still in Port Angeles and woudn't mind a caravan of 928's showing up to take him out to breakfast some weekend, I think it could definitely be arranged.
05-29-2009, 12:36 AM
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I am sure he would love that Adam. His email is elftaler@aol.com, I am sure he would really like to meet some of his own kind up there! Cheers, J
05-29-2009, 01:01 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/8007-greg-gray.html
Try sending him a PM - although he'll probably pop up here as I'm abotu to send him a link about the thread
05-29-2009, 05:39 AM
#38
Yes Hilton you are correct, 
I have been off the air and without Hilton letting me know I would have been none the wiser. My lifters are custom made and about to be done this week, I sure they would love to run two sets as there is time in setup. Don't use the type that are commonly available on Ebay.
The ones I am having made use an adjusting screw and as such you don't have to keep taking off the cam box. The lifters are quite cheap for what they are. 14 pounds each to be exact.
Jason I like your taste in clutches, I didn't think there would be another 928 around with one of those, especially a 16V machine. Obviously there is a lot of very clever stuff on the this race car not to mention money I don't think many people realise the $$$$ in that clutch alone, R&D too costs plenty.
On that topic, where I have spent a lot of time and money is the heads, my development head is back at the headshop getting a new seat fitted for my test. Hopefully the last test and the idea is solid and I have never seen it done so I hope to improve the flow over what I have done so far. Now in regard to that I haven't seen the air flow potential in the heads to support 700 hp. Unless the lift is greatly increased. So unless that engine had very high lift cams that basically require a huge reworking of that area I don't know how that can be done. How many times did it produce that sort of figure and what was the normal hp of that engine?
I have been working on these heads for a long time and chasing this somewhat the biblical 700 hp figure, I can see how 600 hp is produced with cam lifts that I have, have no issues with that, I have also seen my car spike the dyno and we got a figure 60 hp above what we should have. So I would like to know about the details. i am not saying that it didn't happen as I am quite sure it did.
Now the intake, I am also in the process of making my intake and again I like your flange plates
great minds think alike
I don't like the rest of the intake with those turns, my intake will be much more like the GT3 Porsche engine code M97/80 I don't have a photo of it but I might be able to get it to you if you need it. The runners are much straighter for higher air speeds and better cylinder filling.
I have paid a lot of attention to straightening the air's path.
You may also care to have a look at Carl's intake that he built. I am also going to measure the OEM plenum volume to see what it is and then work on a volume that is suitable for my 6.0 liter engine.
What revs and valve sizes are you looking at? Power levels? Mine are 2.10" and 1.65" with 8,000 rpm max with normal redline at 7,500 rpm. With the cam I have I can afford 12 to 1 and we have 98 RON fuel with 100 RON available at some Shell's. With the 0.542" lift cam. I think the best I will do is 550 hp. The headers we have are similar, mine start at 1 3/4" then to 1 7/8" and then to 2" from there into the first collector and out to 2 1/4" into the next collector and they exit as 2 3/4" and then they out to megaphone to 3". Very light and made from inconel, 18 pounds for both sides and 36" long. If you need lightweight mufflers Burns makes some nice ones.
Cheers Greg
I have been off the air and without Hilton letting me know I would have been none the wiser. My lifters are custom made and about to be done this week, I sure they would love to run two sets as there is time in setup. Don't use the type that are commonly available on Ebay. The ones I am having made use an adjusting screw and as such you don't have to keep taking off the cam box. The lifters are quite cheap for what they are. 14 pounds each to be exact.
Jason I like your taste in clutches, I didn't think there would be another 928 around with one of those, especially a 16V machine. Obviously there is a lot of very clever stuff on the this race car not to mention money I don't think many people realise the $$$$ in that clutch alone, R&D too costs plenty.
On that topic, where I have spent a lot of time and money is the heads, my development head is back at the headshop getting a new seat fitted for my test. Hopefully the last test and the idea is solid and I have never seen it done so I hope to improve the flow over what I have done so far. Now in regard to that I haven't seen the air flow potential in the heads to support 700 hp. Unless the lift is greatly increased. So unless that engine had very high lift cams that basically require a huge reworking of that area I don't know how that can be done. How many times did it produce that sort of figure and what was the normal hp of that engine?
I have been working on these heads for a long time and chasing this somewhat the biblical 700 hp figure, I can see how 600 hp is produced with cam lifts that I have, have no issues with that, I have also seen my car spike the dyno and we got a figure 60 hp above what we should have. So I would like to know about the details. i am not saying that it didn't happen as I am quite sure it did.
Now the intake, I am also in the process of making my intake and again I like your flange plates
great minds think alike I don't like the rest of the intake with those turns, my intake will be much more like the GT3 Porsche engine code M97/80 I don't have a photo of it but I might be able to get it to you if you need it. The runners are much straighter for higher air speeds and better cylinder filling.I have paid a lot of attention to straightening the air's path.
You may also care to have a look at Carl's intake that he built. I am also going to measure the OEM plenum volume to see what it is and then work on a volume that is suitable for my 6.0 liter engine.
What revs and valve sizes are you looking at? Power levels? Mine are 2.10" and 1.65" with 8,000 rpm max with normal redline at 7,500 rpm. With the cam I have I can afford 12 to 1 and we have 98 RON fuel with 100 RON available at some Shell's. With the 0.542" lift cam. I think the best I will do is 550 hp. The headers we have are similar, mine start at 1 3/4" then to 1 7/8" and then to 2" from there into the first collector and out to 2 1/4" into the next collector and they exit as 2 3/4" and then they out to megaphone to 3". Very light and made from inconel, 18 pounds for both sides and 36" long. If you need lightweight mufflers Burns makes some nice ones.
Cheers Greg
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
#39
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Great info there. For the clutch my father designed and built the flywheel/starter ring and now our tilton starter enters from the rear through a custom bell housing. I would be interested in pictures, pricing on the lifters...I will have to look up specs for you there. To my knowledge, my father being the builder, the 700hp motor had the intake runners so thin they had to be repaired constantly during porting as they would break through. At one point there was a problem where we had a coolant leak into a cylinder or 2 after running the engine on a race weekend. I am not sure if he had 944 heads on Devore's motor...shoot him an email to find all the details, but we are using 944 heads on this 6.0L as the ported flow rates are better. You have to modify them a bit, but they work fine. As far as the intake that was a design idea and we will see how it goes. We are shooting for big torque for coming off corners on race tracks and if you have had late model intakes apart and cut them up they have 2 stage runners. The low rev runners are about this long and then they transfer to very short runners at high revs. We will know after dyno time how it looks as the revs come up and compare the torque and hp curves. All our collectors are burns...although we went with mild steel for development of the system and after running the car in and playing with a few things we may move on to a permanent SS system. You must have spent some change on your inconel set up...well done. Development $$$$ in this car is well over $$$,$$$ if you are picking up what I am laying down...LOL. I have invited my dad to this link so maybe he will show up and comment.
05-29-2009, 01:29 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
why 2v not 4v?
Greg -- A quick dumb question: Why 2V heads? Best, Tuomo
Yes Hilton you are correct, I have been off the air and without Hilton letting me know I would have been none the wiser. My lifters are custom made and about to be done this week, I sure they would love to run two sets as there is time in setup. Don't use the type that are commonly available on Ebay.
The ones I am having made use an adjusting screw and as such you don't have to keep taking off the cam box. The lifters are quite cheap for what they are. 14 pounds each to be exact.
Jason I like your taste in clutches, I didn't think there would be another 928 around with one of those, especially a 16V machine. Obviously there is a lot of very clever stuff on the this race car not to mention money I don't think many people realise the $$$$ in that clutch alone, R&D too costs plenty.
On that topic, where I have spent a lot of time and money is the heads, my development head is back at the headshop getting a new seat fitted for my test. Hopefully the last test and the idea is solid and I have never seen it done so I hope to improve the flow over what I have done so far. Now in regard to that I haven't seen the air flow potential in the heads to support 700 hp. Unless the lift is greatly increased. So unless that engine had very high lift cams that basically require a huge reworking of that area I don't know how that can be done. How many times did it produce that sort of figure and what was the normal hp of that engine?
I have been working on these heads for a long time and chasing this somewhat the biblical 700 hp figure, I can see how 600 hp is produced with cam lifts that I have, have no issues with that, I have also seen my car spike the dyno and we got a figure 60 hp above what we should have. So I would like to know about the details. i am not saying that it didn't happen as I am quite sure it did.
Now the intake, I am also in the process of making my intake and again I like your flange plates great minds think alike I don't like the rest of the intake with those turns, my intake will be much more like the GT3 Porsche engine code M97/80 I don't have a photo of it but I might be able to get it to you if you need it. The runners are much straighter for higher air speeds and better cylinder filling.
I have paid a lot of attention to straightening the air's path.
You may also care to have a look at Carl's intake that he built. I am also going to measure the OEM plenum volume to see what it is and then work on a volume that is suitable for my 6.0 liter engine.
What revs and valve sizes are you looking at? Power levels? Mine are 2.10" and 1.65" with 8,000 rpm max with normal redline at 7,500 rpm. With the cam I have I can afford 12 to 1 and we have 98 RON fuel with 100 RON available at some Shell's. With the 0.542" lift cam. I think the best I will do is 550 hp. The headers we have are similar, mine start at 1 3/4" then to 1 7/8" and then to 2" from there into the first collector and out to 2 1/4" into the next collector and they exit as 2 3/4" and then they out to megaphone to 3". Very light and made from inconel, 18 pounds for both sides and 36" long. If you need lightweight mufflers Burns makes some nice ones.
Cheers Greg
I have been off the air and without Hilton letting me know I would have been none the wiser. My lifters are custom made and about to be done this week, I sure they would love to run two sets as there is time in setup. Don't use the type that are commonly available on Ebay. The ones I am having made use an adjusting screw and as such you don't have to keep taking off the cam box. The lifters are quite cheap for what they are. 14 pounds each to be exact.
Jason I like your taste in clutches, I didn't think there would be another 928 around with one of those, especially a 16V machine. Obviously there is a lot of very clever stuff on the this race car not to mention money I don't think many people realise the $$$$ in that clutch alone, R&D too costs plenty.
On that topic, where I have spent a lot of time and money is the heads, my development head is back at the headshop getting a new seat fitted for my test. Hopefully the last test and the idea is solid and I have never seen it done so I hope to improve the flow over what I have done so far. Now in regard to that I haven't seen the air flow potential in the heads to support 700 hp. Unless the lift is greatly increased. So unless that engine had very high lift cams that basically require a huge reworking of that area I don't know how that can be done. How many times did it produce that sort of figure and what was the normal hp of that engine?
I have been working on these heads for a long time and chasing this somewhat the biblical 700 hp figure, I can see how 600 hp is produced with cam lifts that I have, have no issues with that, I have also seen my car spike the dyno and we got a figure 60 hp above what we should have. So I would like to know about the details. i am not saying that it didn't happen as I am quite sure it did.
Now the intake, I am also in the process of making my intake and again I like your flange plates
great minds think alike I don't like the rest of the intake with those turns, my intake will be much more like the GT3 Porsche engine code M97/80 I don't have a photo of it but I might be able to get it to you if you need it. The runners are much straighter for higher air speeds and better cylinder filling.I have paid a lot of attention to straightening the air's path.
You may also care to have a look at Carl's intake that he built. I am also going to measure the OEM plenum volume to see what it is and then work on a volume that is suitable for my 6.0 liter engine.
What revs and valve sizes are you looking at? Power levels? Mine are 2.10" and 1.65" with 8,000 rpm max with normal redline at 7,500 rpm. With the cam I have I can afford 12 to 1 and we have 98 RON fuel with 100 RON available at some Shell's. With the 0.542" lift cam. I think the best I will do is 550 hp. The headers we have are similar, mine start at 1 3/4" then to 1 7/8" and then to 2" from there into the first collector and out to 2 1/4" into the next collector and they exit as 2 3/4" and then they out to megaphone to 3". Very light and made from inconel, 18 pounds for both sides and 36" long. If you need lightweight mufflers Burns makes some nice ones.
Cheers Greg
05-29-2009, 04:20 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
05-29-2009, 05:53 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
05-29-2009, 07:05 PM
#45
Tuomo, it is not about which is best, the 2V engine can produce a big number but the cam is lift limited, I am working with the guys making the tappets to see what the max lift can be, so far we all know that 0.600" is achievable, if you were able to lift the valve to 0.750" my heads will flow 700 hp. That is a pretty good head with a CSA of 2.4 sq inches.
Greg
Greg