Bill Ball

Let's take a look at this one more time from the customer's point of view. Carl's response was that "Mr. Allore is upset because he dented his billet impeller somehow", which would void the warranty. So, Mr. Allore is not telling the truth in his eBay ad or Carl has a bias that Mr. Allore damaged the impeller. You can see the blade is bent, and it is Carl's claim that from the direction of the bend this had to be from a mishap, which may well be true. I wouldn't know. If the customer did not drop or otherwise mishandle the impeller, I can see him not being too happy with that response. Carl is certainly justified in refusing to replace the impeller without inspection. You can suggest I am misinterpreting what Carl wrote. Good point. So, most likely, is Mr. Allore.

However, I think what really fried Mr. Allore is the bearing failure and then finding an apparently low-spec KBC bearing. Carl's response is that the bearing was remanufactured to a higher spec and suggests that the bearing was likely installed incorrectly, so warranty void there too. Here's what it says on Carl's website today about the performance rebuild kit.

"THE BEARINGS: We are the original developer of the high-speed bearing for the Powerdyne Supercharger. Working with engineers at SKF, we were able to come up with the right hi-temp grease, the right bearings, and the right alloy inner and outer races to get up to 50,000 rpm out of these bearings where they had been previously limited to 36,000 rpm."

This would lead me to believe I should see some super-duper SKF bearing with special alloy races, not a low-spec KBC bearing with the seals and grease upgraded. I can see how Mr. Allore might be rather surprised and perhaps enraged to find this KBC bearing. With the information on Carl's webpage, had I not known Carl well, I would have been livid too. So, I'm not saying Carl did not remanufacture this bearing to a high-speed spec, but you can see how someone might be hard to dissuade from thinking the wrong bearing was supplied.

Carl is our most prolific 928 vendor, and I have great admiration for his willingness to invest in creating one product after another for us.

Carl Fausett

No problem, but I gotta say, had it not been for Mark Anderson notifying me, I would not have even known there was a thread on here that needed a response.

I know you think that I am watching the Rennlist every day, but I cannot. Making parts, filling customer orders, tech support phone calls, and new product development command my days and I am rarely on the Rennlist without a direct purpose.

PLEASE - if you have a question that needsa a fast response - somebody CALL ME at 920-485-0928 or email me at carl@928motorsports.com and let me know.

You know me - I am certainly never at a loss for a response or willing to give one (sometimes even when I shouldn't). So, if I do not repond to a post on Renn do not assume I am speachless, I probably dont know that there is a question for me waiting to be answered.

Thanks to Mark Anderson, or I would not have even known about this thread.

GRTWHT

There is no way possible that this impeller has cracked in such a way during it's operation.
If it had cracked during operation, it would be bent backwards, the tip clearance would be reduced sometimes to the point where it touches the scroll housing and you have a domino effect of damage. The impeller would loose it's dynamic balance and possibly destroy the shaft bearings as well.

In a nut shell, it's either been dropped or has been struck with a blunt object, as if you were to use a hammer and drift to force the impeller on the main shaft.

Have had plenty of experience with Aircracft centrifigul compressors and they just dont fail like this during operation.

Glenn,
'81 928
Melbourne Australia.

docmirror

Wouldn't impact damage either be on the center of the hub, or show up on the blade, maybe a kerf type damage near, or just outboard of the crack? If impacted on the hub, why would the blade suffer? I guess it could be dropped, and bent at the outer end of the blade, but without seeing the whole blade, who knows?

You have aircraft experience, and it says the part was installed by an aircraft engineer. I can't imagine any kind of A&P type putting a damaged impeller into a housing and letting it run. Potential damage to downstream components would be too great a chance.

Hey, we're going to AU this June! I hope the weather up north is warm. We want to go scuba and snorkel around Cairns. I know, a long way from you.

GRTWHT

If it was impact damaged during operation, the inducer part of the impeller would be jaggered at the leading edges, like a mouse has chewed along the edges. Not just one blade edge but most to nearly all edges would have FOD - Foreign Object Damage. You won't see impact damage on the hub, mainly because whatever tries to by consumed by the impeller tries to follw the air path away from the centre. Also if impacted by something large enough to cause a crack like this (although it's cracked the wrong way) you would have damage downstream and could damage intake valves, pistons and so on. Remember these impeller wheels rotate at up to 48,000RPM depending on there size so it only takes something small to stuff them. There is not enough damge on that impeller to be done in operation.

I can't imagaine an Aircraft engineer letting this go as well, maybe he/she thought it's only a car if it breaks down they can pull over, in a A/C you cant, who knows. We see them damaged all the time, especially if the A/C has come back from Afgahnistan - sandblasted compressor impellers. They crack and seize but nothing like you see on that impeller.


You will have a nice time in June in Cairns docmirror. If you get a chance, travel to Mission Beach, 125miles south of Cairns you wont regret it.
It is a long way from me (2500miles) but I'll be there in September.
Won't be driving the 928 this time unfortunately.

Glenn
'81 928
Melbourne Australia

Giovanni

If the damage was due to the cheap or lower quality bearing than that is even more reason to ship it back to Carl to get a new bearing and a new impeller since he supplied the client with a (supposedly) inferior bearing. Yes/No?

Mark Anderson

Over the years I have learned that you cannot make everyone happy no matter how hard you try. You'd be amazed at the demands presented to us like the failed factory part after 9 years in service. My customer is not happy with me. We can only do so much.

Bill Ball

I'm sorry, I don't think the bearing issue is minor or anything like someone complaining 9 years later. The description of the bearing on the website does not match what the customer found after it failed. If I were Mr. Allore and I paid $250 for a custom SKF bearing and I found a bearing marked KBC 6202Z, which sell for a few dollars, I would be rather incensed.

GregBBRD

Hard to debate this point. Pretty clear on the website. I guess I'd send the bearing to the manufacturer and have them look at it and tell me how "special" it was.

SharkSkin

Sounds like Carl is holding up his end in a professional manner.

As for the bearings, it sounds like the bearing manufacturer only supplies replacement shields with that common, generic number on there. After all, they don't know what the spec of the bearing is going to work out to when the assembly is outside their control.

The above text lifted directly from Carl's site tells me that in 2002 he was using a special bearing co-developed with SKF. In the 7 years since that development they have "been able to have an even better bearing manufactured just for us" which may well be through an arrangement with KBC. Nowhere does it say that you will receive an SKF bearing(though that seems to be implied) and nowhere does it say you will receive a KBC -- but as Bill is hinting at, part of business is managing expectations. This could be clearer.

Carl has the right to run his business as he sees fit, but were it me I would expand the warranty terms posted on the website, where it says "Customer must produce a copy of the paid receipt for any warranty claim to be valid." I would insert "and the failed part".

Also, with so many satisfied customers this might be overkill but he could laser-etch his logo and some sort of "Secret Sauce" slogan or part number on the shields very cheaply if he wanted, though surely some ******* will come along and say he could have done that to any bearing. If he really wanted to screw with people's heads he could etch it on the INSIDE of the shield and tell people, "If you don't believe me, take it apart. I can always sell you another one.

Black Sea RD

I really don't understand why this thread is here in the first place. If the original poster wanted to buy this unit from 928 Motorsports and saw this Ebay add from a disgruntled customer, well then call up 928 Motorsports and have a talk.

Hashing this out on Rennlist with people who were not directly involved who are offering their opinions on what happened and raising questions about the bearings used or other areas of concern, doesn't do any good for anyone. I've talked with Carl personally in the past and have found him willing to discuss anything about his products.

Like it's been said before, if you have a problem, take it up with whoever directly. And as Mark A. alluded to, no one will make everyone happy all the time.

What I have noticed is some enjoy a heavenly status on this forum with anything they do and others suffer a lot of wrath. Makes one wonder a bit...

My .02 cents worth,
Constantine

Andre Hedrick

Way Back Machine to review changes on 928motorsports.com

RngTrtl

I reasoned that since they are a sponsor for RL and many of us purchase parts from there, that this is a place for dialog about it. I see no reason why the dialog should not be public since it involves the credibility of a company that many of us deal with. Granted there has been some speculation and this and that, but the majority of the posts have been productive and informative both for current/future customers and for the vendor.

Abby Normal

At least it's provided some much needed drama. Ever since the Sterling dust up, things have been way to quiet.

It amazes me how some of our best and reliable vendors get their teeth kicked in right here from the 'community' they serve.

928worldwide

Abby you're the best