Rob Edwards

Jim-

I agree 1000%. My only interest in this car would be as a platform for my stroker motor that's almost done, and given all the bodywork that it needs I'd pull the sunroof, replace it with a solid roof, and then either re-spray in Cobalt or Midnight- the latter would be a lot easier. It'll never be a collector car again, even if the original M28/49 motor were to resurface.

Bottom line I'd end up with $20K+ (NOT including the motor) into it, assuming a $7500 purchase price, $4K in paint/bodywork (that's probably a gross underestimate even with me stripping it to a shell) and $2K to Paul.

For giggles, here's the updated, OCD list of what I can tell it needs AT A MINIMUM. This doesn't include new tires, new brake rotors, and all the other stuff a 15 year old car with 134K miles on it needs.


Late 1993 production midnight blue 5 speed GTS, salvage title
transport to CA
transport to and from WA
CA titling/smog
Paint/bodywork/sunroof delete
Paul Champagne leather dash:
"" headliner- no sunroof
"" pod
928.618.111.00 Headlamp Washer relay
*928.618.113.01 Intensive Washer relay
1H0.953.227 *Indicator(turn),*4-Way Flasher relay
928.615.124.01 ABS Relay
928.618.221.00* Control unit -speedometer relay
928 606 128 01 02 sensor
928 606 155 02 ignition temp sensors- pair
928 618 175 00 ignition control relay
928 618 231 01 cage for LH and EZK and socket for IC relay
928 618 130 01 other part of brain cage
928 603 021 01 alternator
928 603 021 01 alt pulley
900 034 013 02 hex nut M16 x 1.5
N 012 016 1 alt pulley lock washer
928 603 133 07 alt rear cover
N 011 005 14 nuts for alt rear cover M5
900 025 003 02 washers for alt rear cover A 5,3
928 101 127 00 alt tension adjuster bracket
900 025 008 09 washers
900 075 041 09 upper tension bracket bolt M10 x 25
928 101 129 00 lower tension bracket bolt
N 010 248 1 tension adjuster bolt M8 x 60
900 076 025 02 tension adjuster nut
928 603 903 00 alt shaft woodruff key
N 010 361 4 PS pump tensioner bolt
900 076 025 02 PS pump tensioner nut M8
N 010 335 5 midline PS/alt mounting cassette mounting bolts
900 074 197 02 Big upper alt mount bolt AND midline PS/alt mounting cassette mounting bolts M10 x 130
900 910 031 09 PS pump mounting bolt nut
N 010 353 3 PS pump bolts M8 x 42
PS pump bracket to pump mounting bolts
928 504 061 02 engine compartment strut bar
928 356 081 04 fuel supply line
928 126 116 03 A/C compressor heat shield
N 010 340 6 M8 x 40 bolts for A/C heat shield, bracket to block mount
900 025 007 02 A8,4 washer for above bolts
900 083 057 02 front compressor bolt M10 x 33
900 025 008 09 washer for front compressor bolt
999 512 350 02 PS reservoir band clamp
928 113 017 00 air pump
999 192 335 50 A?C comp belt
999 192 286 50 PS pump belt
999 192 266 50 Alt belt
999 192 306 50 air pump belt
All vacuum hoses
928.101.123.02 alt/PS pump mounting bracket
928 606 141 00 MAF
U 928 110 230 06 air cleaner top
928.110.229.05 air cleaner bottom
928.110.363.06 air cleaner straps x 4
928 110 272 13 S4 intake tubes
928 116 412 03 lower bellhousing cover
PP/clutch/flywheel/TOB/release arm
928 106 259 02 fan shroud
928 624 145 00 fan motors
928 106 023 20 radiator
928 106 238 08 upper rad hose
928 106 239 09 lower rad hose
928 606 149 00 rad temp switch
928 106 321 03 hose- Y-pipe to tstat housing
928 375 069 01 motor mount top plates
928 375 371 00 motor mount bottom plates
928 602 116 00 coils
928 602 801 00 coil caps
928 602 040 01 left coil wire
928 602 040 00 right coil wire
928 602 117 00 pass coil bracket
928 602 511 00 driver's coil bracket
LH
EZK
starter
cats
928.110.093/4.01 resonators/intermediate mufflers
Muffler or RMB
clutch intermediate shaft
928 421 051 02 (?) '78 only? clutch shaft/TT shaft clamp
931 421 240 00 Grade 12.9 clamping screw
944 606 170 01 Hall sensor
944 606 115 00 CPS
spare tire cover
928 503 501 03 roof panel- 928intl only shows 928 503 501 02 used
928 555 071 08 headliner- leather
928 612 871 02 jump post cover
passenger side windshield wiper frame

Rob Edwards

And yes, I've spent a little too much time looking at pictures of this car....

cold_beer839

My first thoughts when I saw the car was the same as your's Rob; a great platform for a 6.5L Greg Brown stroker engine!! Sort the suspension completely, then repaint and address the interior issues.

You would have a car you would never want to sale and would care less what the title said.

I am too far away and the funds are not there. Plus my loving wife would blow a neck bolt when it showed up here.

Rob Edwards

I may yet do it, just trying to smooth the paper trail. I don't care if it's a salvage title, I'm just afraid of the California DMV. Colorado will do something called a bonded title, but I don't know whether the car needs to be operable/smoggable to get one. I may try to convince Lloyd to help with titling it first.

Jim Morton

Rob:

Kind of interesting. I too am looking at this chassis as a platform for development / enjoyment of two engine projects as well as some suspension / brake components. For me, the car is pretty much on target for something to play with. As I like my cars to look smart, the paint / body work is a real $$$ concern as good paint work is not cheap. Factor in all the needed rubber pieces to do the paint correctly and it adds up fast.

Also, given the title issues and lack of correct engine, I think it unlikely that this car is worthy to be brought back as a stock car and be valued any where a GTS. There is too many things wrong relative to possible sales value. Like some of the modded track cars, this car requires a unique buyer.

$0.02

S4ordie

Rob - I appreciate the mental machinations you are going through regarding resurrecting this GTS. But when I look at all those part numbers and also think you may be $10k short on your estimate wouldn't it just be sooooo much easier/cheaper to make your 90 GT look just like a GTS? For the kind of money you are thinking of dropping on a frankenstein car you could for a fraction of the price have your rear wheel wells spread a bit, upgrade the suspension and brakes to the GTS ( I suspect you are going to exceed those anyway as part of your total performance upgrade) and replace the rear bumper facia and wing with a GTS version. This would be peanuts compared to buying that GTS.

Contrary to the popular thinking on this thread, unless someone is going to resurrext this car for the goodnes of maintaining the number of GTS's - meaning it is going to be restored to OEM configuration - then that car represents a greater value to the GTS community as a parts car.

That car is like a brain dead drunk driver - donate the organs to others in great need. Or else it should be restored to original condition.

Just my2cents.
Dan

Rob Edwards

Dan-

I agree with you that at some level the GTS is worth saving just for what it is, and that is less the case with a '90GT. However, I have completely sorted the GT (like, I've run out of things to 'sort'), it has its original paint and interior (life-long SoCal car...), I have the complete servie history, all the stock parts, manuals, RDK wheels, CD-2, tools, etc, and it's worth as much as it's ever going to be worth in its currently stock configuration. If '90 GT's ever become even vaguely 'collectable' (admittedly unlikely this side of 2020....), mine will be among the nicer ones left in original condition. It's the only chance it has of being worth something someday.

The GTS, on the other hand, has lost its matching # engine, has an essentially irreplaceable full leather interior but has a vinyl cobalt blue pod and the dash is toast. I agree that it'd be nice to restore it back to original condition, but it isn't ever going to be original again. And turning it into a parts car is exactly what endangers all 928's until they're worth more whole than as parts cars. The only reason we know about it is that Lloyd started to part it out (he sold the radiator for $180.....) which brought it to David's attention.

So I think the realistic happy medium is to restore the interior and exterior as gently as possible with the original colors (I know I talked about chopping the sunroof and doing it in Cobalt blue, but the Midnight is really growing on me- I'm not sure that Cobalt exterior/ marine blue interior mightn't be TOO much blue. Besides, a proper repaint in Midnight would be a lot easier than switching to Cobalt ), and stick a bigass stroker motor and do the same overall cleanup/sorting I've done to the GT, and end up with a beautiful midnight blue GTS 5-speed that's just waiting for its motor to come home. And in the meantime, drive the **** out of it with 400+ rwhp.....

Most of those part numbers are just $0.40 washers and stuff, no big deal...

S4ordie

Hey Rob - good reply but what/where is the motivation? Do you want to end up with a totally sorted tricked out torque monster GTS that looks really fantastic, or is it that plus the philantropic ideal of keeping a GTS on the road? If it is and you are unconcerned about the total cost, then please do pull this car back from the brink. To save the car would be great, though expensive.

If you are concerned about cost but really want a totally sorted tricked out torque monster GTS then it's probably a whole lot better to buy one of the few low dollar, running well, GTS's that are out there for under $30k that also have good paint/interior but perhaps a few more miles than what collectors want. Put your stroker engine into one of those cars (you are already incurring that cost) and spend another $5K getting everything else well sorted and voila! You've got a much nicer, more collectible GTS that meets/exceeds all of your present requirements.

Or, if you've got a few extra bucks lying around, buy that babied 36,000 mile near perfect 94 Midnight Blue (auto) GTS in Santa Rosa, CA for $38K (I think that lady would take $35k for the car) swap in the GB stroker and still have a spare 36,000 mile, like new, engine in reserve. That car's paint and interior is near perfect in condition. Now that would be a better investment.

Regarding the larger issue of saving cars like the stripped GTS..... I feel these cars should be saved when they can be. Problem is it just costs a bloody fortune to make it happen. Enough that it is just not a viable alternative for most "enthusiasts" and not a particulary good investment for the "collector". But the car is saveable.... what to do, what should the 928 owner crowd do to perserve one of the very few GTS's? I don't know for sure, but is there some way the car could be brought back to a very good level of restoration and then auctioned/raffled off for some beneficial purpose that could at least recoup most of the costs? If the 928 community is really concerned about preservation of the GTS shouldn't there be some philantropic possibility here?

The amazing efforts to save socalgirl's car is an extraordinary example of what this community is capable of. It is an emotional thing for many and the good samaritan in all of us willing to participate is truly a good thing. Why can't we do the same thing for this GTS? Some of us could donate parts and or labor. The remaining funds to get the car restored could be through the selling of $100 raffle tickets (hmmmm to incite those with parts or labor to donate, the value for their contributions could be reflected in commmensurate raffle tickets). This might cover the cost of the restoration of the car and if the raffle was widely marketed could, maybe, generate a bit of a profit that could be donated to Rennwish. In the end a GTS is saved, the 928 community feels good and there is some happy owner and Rennwish, or some other NPO benefits.... seems everyone wins. Anyway some random thoughts about how to save special cars like this GTS.

Dan

cfc928gt

Rob, it seems you have a good handle on what it would take to resurrect this but as you stated, you need to figure out the title issues before you get too emotionally committed. As far as Colorado goes, you might want to talk with someone at motor vehicle, their # is 303/795-4500. BTW, when I spoke with him, he wasn't sure if he'd part it or not but he did say he'd have to have someone commit to the 5 speed tranny first before he parted the whole thing. I asked him what he thought it was worth and he said $3500.

RyanPerrella

ive made him an offer on the transaxle and TT and parts

im awaiting a reply

90 S-4

Rob,
Just a heads up.. I almost bought a salvage title car once, until I started checking around with
Insurance companies, a lot of them won't insure a salvage title car in ,CA Maybe your Ins. Co. is
different and won't mind ? but check first to be safe..

Rob Edwards

It'd be an extra $123 per 6 months. Gotta love USAA.

Mark Anderson

Actually that seems to be a big hit. I have a few cars insured with USAA and most are under $500 per 6 months.