Jim Morton

Brendan:

I am using Alcon rotors for my fronts. The 332's are a little harder to find in Alcon, but the Alcon material with Pagid race pad compounds wear nice and consistent with a good ratio of pad to rotor.

FWIW, I ran the Brembo rotors on my 993TT. The Brembos were nice, but from other experiences, I prefer the Alcon over Brembo if available.

RyanPerrella

Jim,

Care to comment on the hats you used? were they one off's made by a machinist?

Also can you confirm that the 332mm rotor does fit inside the GTS caliper. Or does it need a small spacer or shim?

BC

Can you check on that? The part numbers are on the site.

BC

Alcon. Nice stuff. Looks like Brembo with thier motorsports brand wants to cut into Alcon.

Jim Morton

Ryan:

My hats were old stock, now NLA. The hats I used are meant for fixed mouting as the bolt holes and mating surface are intended to handle bending load through the bolted connection (not pinned like a floater). The hats are not too fancy looking with a clear anodize, but they spin true and hold my beloved Alcons.

If you guys are able to assemble a group buy, I suspect there are a lot of hungry SoCal CNC shops that what would love a job as simple as the hats. Just make sure the hat design / material selection is strong enough to support the bolted connection as well as make sure the bolting connection can stay tight through all the heat cycling. FWIW, I prefer the SPS flex lock nuts for this type of bolted rotor connection. There are other ways to lock the fasteners, but I have found sourcing other lock nuts not as easy.

$0.02

BC

I was thinking of getting the new Brembo hardware for the anti-rattle floater stuff.

svp928

Brendan, the floating rotor design would be different than a bolted connection as far as hats go- Jim explained it well in that the floating rotor introduces a bending moment to the bolts/hats that isn't there on the solid face-to-face connection. Jim is also right about specific hardware for either one- I mentioned in my brake thread that we always used Coast Fabrication for brake hardware- they have the proper high-temp bolts, nuts, AND WASHERS for brake use. We made all the brake hats and floating hardware for Swift's Indycars a long time ago, and I still have some here. I didn't do flaoters on my car because I don't want to replace them that often- the design for the racecars we made will eat the hat fairly quickly, compared to a bolted assy. The titanium pucks sliding on the aluminum hat at the pressures applied by the brakes really wear the aluminum quickly. Swift replaced them every race, or about 500-700 track miles. Gets exp$pensive! SOme of the newer designs using a round insert that fits inside the hat last longer, I'm told.
As for cost- we used 2024 T351 cold-finished bar for the hats. Its about $4-$6 per pound at our cost. If Lindsay is selling for $300 a pair, thats a good price. I coulnd't make them for that in less than quantities of around 40 pieces...
Cryo-treating, done right, will nearly double the life of an iron rotor, depending on how good it is to start with. But, it can cost a fair bit if you only do 4 rotors...another group buy, maybe?

I know you asked me about hats before, and I could not really give you a good answer. I was making them for Devek, and I will not make or sell a customer's part unless it is with their permission. However, I can certainly make anything you send me a drawing for, and the S-4-to-993 hat would be different from anything I make for anyone else.

BC

I know that the floating rotor would change the parameters of the hat. I was expecting that.

I was just going to get the design in CNC and see how many I can interested. Its never many with my crazy ideas, or its already been done but I want to change it. That sort of thing.

My opinion is that I don't know how long those 993TT rotors will be 200 dollars. Porsche may start shafting everyone and start charging more for a lesser part (they do that often) - so moving to the Brembo motorsports rotor and making that hat for that may be a better idea. I have no specs for that other than the measurements on that brembo site, so I am even less far along on that idea.

BC

Here we go:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Brembo/Rotor_Replacement.htm





Separate discussion of different kinds of systems:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/fa...parison.shtml#

IcemanG17

I have GTS front brakes on the widow with pagid oranges, steel braided lines, stock rotors and ATE fluid....the brakes work VERY well..... It appears the stock GTS rotors are around $250 each and pads are about $300..so $800 for the set....

Now 993 turbo cross drilled are cheaper at about $229 each & pads would be the same...so would these part #'s fit the same as GTS rotors?

993-351-045-10-M294 993 turbo front left $229
993-351-046-10-M294 993 turbo front right $229

BC

The 993TT rotors require the hat I am suggesting to work on the S4 spindle.

RyanPerrella

Brendan,

I like the Brembo Racing rotor too. But i am curious what all the other little stuff would add up to.

If we went with Brembo racing rotors at $450 (perhaps i can get them for less, not sure though) but we would then need hats and hardware to mount them.

Lets say pad cost is the same no matter what rotor we go with so lets look at just rotor cost.

THE KNOWN: 993 TT rotors $180 each (sunset last i checked) = $360
THE KNOWN: Lindsey Racing hats for the above $300
$660 total plus shipping (no tax on rotors though)

UNKNOWN: Brembo Racing 332mm rotors (most likely more durable, bigger) $900 pair target price $750 pair
UNKNOWN: Hat to mount them <$300
UNKNOWN: hardware to mount rotor to hub $? What like $50 max?
TOTAL UNKNOWN: $1100-$1250

So this Brembo exercise is likely twice the cost. I like that the rotor is larger, i like that the rotor material is likely much stronger. I dont like the cost, i also dont like the fact that its totally unproven and would depend on you getting good quality hats made.

What do you think? I am kinda tempted to just go the 993TT route (or is there some other cheap replacement that simply bolts on) and investigate cryo treating the rotors for increased life and possible reduction in wear and or cracking

Point is we should only have to buy the hats once. So after the initial outlay, the regular replacement cost is either $900 for Brembo rotors, or $360 for Porsche rotors which makes the stock items huge favorites. I know i could use the additional money saved on some other go fast goodie.

I like the idea, but the Brembo cost is huge, and unproven. But maybe i will be surprised by my quoted price.......

Mrmerlin

I have the TT setup on my 1988 S4 .
It was a bolt on application, no hats

RyanPerrella

Stan,

The rotors on your car are 965 3.6L Turbo

you seriously dont believe me do you LOL I am pretty sure ive tried to point that out to you a few times in past threads. You posting that the discs are 993 TT i think only adds to the confusion.

Check the part number on the discs, see for yourself.

BC

There are no bolts, so its obvious those rotors are not 993TT rotors.