Coil on plug ignition
11-11-2008, 09:19 PM
#46
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I've met a great many Englishmen and even dated an Engish girl ... but you're the first and only Englishman or otherwise, to have claimed clearly silly and impossible feats with his car on an open forum, and has never, no not once, backed a single outrageous statement with the slightest of fact. You, sir, are clinically insane.
Hi
Insane....Possibly , how would I know though....
Facts...try using search....pictures, dyno`s....etc
Next spring/summer when I attempt my runs....IF I succeed.....somehow I doubt you will apologise....
Funnily enough you will probably know as an American magazine is interested in Sponsoring me and running an article on it....but you probably wont believe what you read in that either...assuming you can read ?
All the best Brett
11-11-2008, 09:25 PM
#47
The stock coils and ignition system starts to lose the game at about 31psi. Proven.
11-11-2008, 09:35 PM
#49
31psi of boost pressure 
Proven in the real world by real experts.
Its a known fact that ignition systems based on plug wires and single or other non-per-cylinder coil designs, can become a weakness. JUST because YOU don't feel like allowing it as fact DOES NOT make it NOT FACT. Please, lets keep this civil, and you can move along to another thread where you can be ludicrously illogical on some other subject.
Proven in the real world by real experts.
Its a known fact that ignition systems based on plug wires and single or other non-per-cylinder coil designs, can become a weakness. JUST because YOU don't feel like allowing it as fact DOES NOT make it NOT FACT. Please, lets keep this civil, and you can move along to another thread where you can be ludicrously illogical on some other subject.
11-11-2008, 10:46 PM
#50
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31psi of boost pressure
Proven in the real world by real experts.
Its a known fact that ignition systems based on plug wires and single or other non-per-cylinder coil designs, can become a weakness. JUST because YOU don't feel like allowing it as fact DOES NOT make it NOT FACT. Please, lets keep this civil, and you can move along to another thread where you can be ludicrously illogical on some other subject.
Proven in the real world by real experts.
Its a known fact that ignition systems based on plug wires and single or other non-per-cylinder coil designs, can become a weakness. JUST because YOU don't feel like allowing it as fact DOES NOT make it NOT FACT. Please, lets keep this civil, and you can move along to another thread where you can be ludicrously illogical on some other subject.
You mean on a supercharged system....that explains it....you might try and remember that the MAJORITY of 928 owners both here and in the UK , would not have the foggiest idea of what you were talking about....
And whose "WELL KNOWN FACT" ???
Thats total rubbish...I was using blowers in Drag racing on Top Fuel cars in the eighties on single coils and magnetos and normal plugs and the blowers we used would make a 928 one look like a toddler....
In case you wondered...we used Magnetos as we had no batteries in those days....you can look up the reason why as you obviously will not believe me...
We were also using Nitromethane which is a LOT more difficult to ignite with a spark than petrol.....
Well known fact ....lollllllllllllllllllllll
All the best Brett
Last edited by Brett928S2; 11-11-2008 at 11:05 PM.
11-11-2008, 11:43 PM
#51
Why are you even comparing a magneto and coils to the system on the 928? Its as if you are an imposter, and the persona you need to use as cover is something you haven't studied enough.
The ignition system on top fuel dragsters are basically welders for the amount of power they have. They need it to light off in the difficult environs of nitro.
So you are saying that what I said, which is pure fact and actual tested info, is "rubbish" because of some comparison to drag motors from the 80s that were able to light off spark plugs in nitro AF ratios of 2 and 3 to 1 with "single coils" and magnetos.
Do you like the attention now? Because you are still wrong, just more people are noticing with this thread that you are full of it, or possibly just very misguided.
I'm out. COP is good. Better than single or divided coil systems.
The ignition system on top fuel dragsters are basically welders for the amount of power they have. They need it to light off in the difficult environs of nitro.
So you are saying that what I said, which is pure fact and actual tested info, is "rubbish" because of some comparison to drag motors from the 80s that were able to light off spark plugs in nitro AF ratios of 2 and 3 to 1 with "single coils" and magnetos.
Do you like the attention now? Because you are still wrong, just more people are noticing with this thread that you are full of it, or possibly just very misguided.
I'm out. COP is good. Better than single or divided coil systems.
11-11-2008, 11:50 PM
#52
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Adding COP is cool. Some folks just like to tinker, just for the doing of it, not the real world benefits. Don't forget you have to bypass the RPM/Fuel cutout circuit if you want revs over 6500rpms, assuming the twin dizzy set up is the same as the older Euro S.
I do a lot of stupid stuff to my shark, most of which doesn't give any real world gains. Heck most ussually make it slower and a whole lot uglier.
But I enjoy the journey, and wrenching in the garage keeps me out of the bars.
That being said, a MSD billet distributor with a MSD 6AL and a large coil will easily handle any RPM range a shark can throw at it. Any gap as well. Without major modifications to the shark.
My MSD retards timing under spray and can easily be set up to do the same under boost. Billet distributor has a lighter shaft and better bearings for less resistance. E-curve can be programmed to adjust advance to rpm, non-linearly as apposed to weights. Solid rotor has no resistor so spark easily jumps to cap even under high RPM. I run .050 gap with a 2 step colder plug (NGK8's) with no issues, even though I don't spray every day.
Again coil pack is cool and would bring the shark forward in time, I say do it. However you can get race worthy results other ways as well. One advantage of COP I didn't see mentioned:
-Each coil see's less heat so it will perform better longer and have longer reliability as well.
Choosing a coil is always a compromise. Finding a COP system that is well designed for the shark, even more of a compromise. A coil with one form of winding might make the engine easy to start, but at the top end (high rpm range), the coil won't function properly. Another coil-winding ratio might be best suited for use at high engine rpm, but it won't work well to fire the spark when starting the engine. Because of this, most coils are a design of compromise. Going COP does not automatically mean you get higher RPM performance.
Higher voltage allows for a larger gap, yet higher amperage leads to a better ignition and burn. You can't have both. It's funny that most manufactures advertise secondary voltage which in realty only leads to what size gap you can use, not it's ability to ignite the fuel at high RPM. Typically higher voltage coils have fewer windings, leading to a less powerful spark with a shorter duration. That's why the MSD ignition helps at low RPMs with it's multi firing. It allows you to run a high RPM coil that will still work well at low RPM. Less of a compromise than a traditional coil pack set up.
Brett, my fellow giggle gas addict, as to 8000rpms in a shark under spray? What springs are you using? My JE Racing springs are good for a little over 7000rpms and they're a step up from 951 springs.
I do a lot of stupid stuff to my shark, most of which doesn't give any real world gains. Heck most ussually make it slower and a whole lot uglier.
But I enjoy the journey, and wrenching in the garage keeps me out of the bars.That being said, a MSD billet distributor with a MSD 6AL and a large coil will easily handle any RPM range a shark can throw at it. Any gap as well. Without major modifications to the shark.
My MSD retards timing under spray and can easily be set up to do the same under boost. Billet distributor has a lighter shaft and better bearings for less resistance. E-curve can be programmed to adjust advance to rpm, non-linearly as apposed to weights. Solid rotor has no resistor so spark easily jumps to cap even under high RPM. I run .050 gap with a 2 step colder plug (NGK8's) with no issues, even though I don't spray every day.
Again coil pack is cool and would bring the shark forward in time, I say do it. However you can get race worthy results other ways as well. One advantage of COP I didn't see mentioned:
-Each coil see's less heat so it will perform better longer and have longer reliability as well.
Choosing a coil is always a compromise. Finding a COP system that is well designed for the shark, even more of a compromise. A coil with one form of winding might make the engine easy to start, but at the top end (high rpm range), the coil won't function properly. Another coil-winding ratio might be best suited for use at high engine rpm, but it won't work well to fire the spark when starting the engine. Because of this, most coils are a design of compromise. Going COP does not automatically mean you get higher RPM performance.
Higher voltage allows for a larger gap, yet higher amperage leads to a better ignition and burn. You can't have both. It's funny that most manufactures advertise secondary voltage which in realty only leads to what size gap you can use, not it's ability to ignite the fuel at high RPM. Typically higher voltage coils have fewer windings, leading to a less powerful spark with a shorter duration. That's why the MSD ignition helps at low RPMs with it's multi firing. It allows you to run a high RPM coil that will still work well at low RPM. Less of a compromise than a traditional coil pack set up.
Brett, my fellow giggle gas addict, as to 8000rpms in a shark under spray? What springs are you using? My JE Racing springs are good for a little over 7000rpms and they're a step up from 951 springs.
11-12-2008, 12:38 AM
#53
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When I want a 928 that's only good for a few seconds at a time I'll give you a call. Wake me when your top fuel dragster can take a 90 degree downhill turn at 65mph.
Comparing a 928 that will be used for road racing to a top fuel dragster is like being asked what your favorite supermodel is and you say RuPaul.
I know guys making 700hp with pushrods - doesn't mean I'm going to do the same with my 928.
Right now the most powerful 928 in the world (yes, more then yours) has eight (yes eight) individual timing maps. One for each cylinder.*
Let me know when you figure out how to do that with your current system.
Oh wait, why would that be necessary when top fuel cars don't need it? How silly of me.
*The car mentioned in this post is not running COP...yet. That is the next step.
Last edited by hacker-pschorr; 11-12-2008 at 09:14 AM.
11-12-2008, 03:42 AM
#54
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11-12-2008, 06:42 AM
#55
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SO YOU CANNOT WIN THE TECHNICAL ARGUMENT SO YOU BRING IN PERSONAL FACTS ABOUT MY CHILDREN AND THEIR SCHOOL ................
VERY WELL DONE, I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD OF YOURSELF....
I THOUGHT BETTER OF PEOPLE HERE....
BRETT
11-12-2008, 08:59 AM
#56
Nordschleife Master
Much as the whole Brett/Hacker/others thing has been bugging me in this thread...
Heinrich, that post of yours has no place in a 928 forum. Someone needs to close this thread, or clean it up.
(thanks to Terra Pistris for the last post.. great read!)
Heinrich, that post of yours has no place in a 928 forum. Someone needs to close this thread, or clean it up.
(thanks to Terra Pistris for the last post.. great read!)
11-12-2008, 09:18 AM
#57
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It just bugs me how many threads Brett hijacks with information that is very counterproductive to the OP's project, or flat out incorrect.
I have no doubt Brett's setup (assuming it's all real) will crack the 200mph mark. Will it be safe? Not from what I've seen in his pictures. I am shocked any sanctioning body would allow his car to do a top speed run.
11-12-2008, 10:32 AM
#58
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11-12-2008, 11:14 AM
#59
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you're right. intent was to show how he plays with others, but yes, this is a web forum, not life. deleted. Brett, please accept my apologies.
Heinrich
Heinrich
11-12-2008, 11:29 AM
#60
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Hi
I enjoyed Terra-Pistris post....but I wont post in this thread again, which was precisely what was intended by Heinrich...
So by bringing my personal life into it he has accomplished what he intended....
All the best to the rest here...Brett
I enjoyed Terra-Pistris post....but I wont post in this thread again, which was precisely what was intended by Heinrich...
So by bringing my personal life into it he has accomplished what he intended....
All the best to the rest here...Brett