Coil on plug ignition
11-09-2008 | 02:42 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 1
From: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
This coming from the guy who claims not a dyno in europe can handle the power his car is making.
On top of that the dyno that was posted during early testing you clamined a 35% drivetrian loss to give you 500rwhp.
As a bonus, where are those pictures of the nitrous bottles bolted to the balsa wood that makes up the rear seats?
Yup, I'm the dim one.
Good luck, and please do not die in your high speed attempt.
On top of that the dyno that was posted during early testing you clamined a 35% drivetrian loss to give you 500rwhp.
As a bonus, where are those pictures of the nitrous bottles bolted to the balsa wood that makes up the rear seats?
Yup, I'm the dim one.
Good luck, and please do not die in your high speed attempt.
I do not know whether its me personally, or maybe its English people in general or maybe its Nitrous users you do not like.....but....
Instead of constantly insulting people...
Could you try and stay on subject and give me some advantages of COP ??
All the best Brett
11-09-2008 | 02:47 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,600
Likes: 34
From: Abbotsford B.C.
Louie is running EDIS coils which are controlled by his DTA ECU.
I didnt go with COP for a couple reasons,
1) there have been alot of COP failures, and trying to find the dead one is very hard as they are normally intermitant!
2) EDIS computes the signal and has larger coils, which allow you to run a larger gap and have more surface area to extract heat out of them. They have a proven track record, and are very reliable. As well with EDIS computing the signal it takes a VERY taxing load off of the EFI brain.
That said however there are a few advantages to run a system such as COP or EDIS. You can run a much larger spark plug gap, this helps idle in larger bore cyl. Gives a quicker and more efficent burn as you ign more of the mixture initially which in turn produces a faster flame front.
You are also able to run as much aadvance as you want at any point of RPM. For example, I run 28 deg of ign advance at idle, this give me AMAZING off idle throttle responce.
I didnt go with COP for a couple reasons,
1) there have been alot of COP failures, and trying to find the dead one is very hard as they are normally intermitant!
2) EDIS computes the signal and has larger coils, which allow you to run a larger gap and have more surface area to extract heat out of them. They have a proven track record, and are very reliable. As well with EDIS computing the signal it takes a VERY taxing load off of the EFI brain.
That said however there are a few advantages to run a system such as COP or EDIS. You can run a much larger spark plug gap, this helps idle in larger bore cyl. Gives a quicker and more efficent burn as you ign more of the mixture initially which in turn produces a faster flame front.
You are also able to run as much aadvance as you want at any point of RPM. For example, I run 28 deg of ign advance at idle, this give me AMAZING off idle throttle responce.
11-09-2008 | 03:51 PM
#33
Administrator
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 2,258
From: Up Nort
How about we try this - you stay out of threads where you have NOTHING positive to add. Ok?
This is a thread about adding COP to a car. Greg Gray is the farthest thing from a 928 NOOB as you can get.
Greg didn't ask "should I go COP??" So stop trying to answer a question that wasn't asked.
Look around, plenty of reasons have been given in this thread.
Have a nice day
This is a thread about adding COP to a car. Greg Gray is the farthest thing from a 928 NOOB as you can get.
Greg didn't ask "should I go COP??" So stop trying to answer a question that wasn't asked.
Have a nice day
11-09-2008 | 04:45 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 1
From: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
How about we try this - you stay out of threads where you have NOTHING positive to add. Ok?
This is a thread about adding COP to a car. Greg Gray is the farthest thing from a 928 NOOB as you can get.
Greg didn't ask "should I go COP??" So stop trying to answer a question that wasn't asked.
Look around, plenty of reasons have been given in this thread.
Have a nice day
This is a thread about adding COP to a car. Greg Gray is the farthest thing from a 928 NOOB as you can get.
Greg didn't ask "should I go COP??" So stop trying to answer a question that wasn't asked.
Look around, plenty of reasons have been given in this thread.
Have a nice day
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Are you nuts or just plain stupid ?
I have been a Mechanic and a Race mechanic and a Crew chief for a LOT of years....
What are your mechanical qualifications ???
You STILL HAVE NOT GIVEN A SINGLE TECHNICAL FACT TO THIS THREAD !
The posts above yours by Stirling and Lizard had interesting FACTS in them.
Facts work better than insults in a technical Forum don't you think ???
Try one....????????????????
LET ME GIVE YOU A HINT...
Flame fronts....
Timing advance....
Timing retard....
Centrifugal Advance....
Plug gaps....
Plus heat ranges....
Now its your turn ??????????
All the best Brett
11-09-2008 | 05:08 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 0
From: Livermore, California
I find this thread interesting so I'm going to piggy-back a question. When removing the distributor(s) and the subsequent leads, would you reduce the resistance to the electricity that fires the spark plug? Would that make a hotter spark, enabling you to run a wider gap? Also, would the benefit of not having the engine turn more mechanical parts (namely the distributor and if present the drive gear), give you a tiny increase in hp?
11-09-2008 | 05:17 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 1
From: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
I find this thread interesting so I'm going to piggy-back a question. When removing the distributor(s) and the subsequent leads, would you reduce the resistance to the electricity that fires the spark plug? Would that make a hotter spark, enabling you to run a wider gap? Also, would the benefit of not having the engine turn more mechanical parts (namely the distributor and if present the drive gear), give you a tiny increase in hp?
By removing the dizzy drive you would in "theory" get a tiny hp increase, but in practice , I doubt it would be measurable ...think hmmmmm..maybe 10th of a hp...as a guess.
You can already widen your gap if you wish with the standard system...I have run between 20 thou and 60 thou while using different plug ranges for my Nitrous system.
All the best Brett
11-09-2008 | 05:24 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,600
Likes: 34
From: Abbotsford B.C.
hitbyastick,
You dont really gain anything from loosing the distributors and rotors on the 32V cars as they simply sit on the ends of the cams. With the 16V cars though, yes you would see a very very tiny increase from that.
By removing the distributor you loose a major loss in the system, If you run too large of a gap on a distributor car you will cause premature wear to the cap and rotor and there is a point where it simply wont be able to make that jump.
With a coil being hooked up straight to the spark plug, like on a EDIS (wasted spark) or COP setup, the only gap you have to jump is the spark plug, not only that you have a longer duration between firing times, meaning that at higher rpms you are straining the coils less and they can build up a much hotter spark. Consider that for every 2 RPMS your engine needs 8 ign events. 1 coil would obviously be more strained compaired to 4 or 8.
You can also use EDIS to run a COP setup with wasted spark should one so choose.
As well running wasted spark as compared to non, imo is a non issue.
You dont really gain anything from loosing the distributors and rotors on the 32V cars as they simply sit on the ends of the cams. With the 16V cars though, yes you would see a very very tiny increase from that.
By removing the distributor you loose a major loss in the system, If you run too large of a gap on a distributor car you will cause premature wear to the cap and rotor and there is a point where it simply wont be able to make that jump.
With a coil being hooked up straight to the spark plug, like on a EDIS (wasted spark) or COP setup, the only gap you have to jump is the spark plug, not only that you have a longer duration between firing times, meaning that at higher rpms you are straining the coils less and they can build up a much hotter spark. Consider that for every 2 RPMS your engine needs 8 ign events. 1 coil would obviously be more strained compaired to 4 or 8.
You can also use EDIS to run a COP setup with wasted spark should one so choose.
As well running wasted spark as compared to non, imo is a non issue.
11-09-2008 | 05:27 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,600
Likes: 34
From: Abbotsford B.C.
In responce to Brett's last comment. If you run a 60 thou gap on a stock 928 ign system, esp the earlier single coil systems, I believe that you would see missing in the upper RPMS as the coil couldnt produce enough charge to keep up, and in higher CR engines would also help to prevent a spark powerfull enough to ignite the mixture.
Not only that, the cap and rotor would be worn out in very short order.
Not only that, the cap and rotor would be worn out in very short order.
11-09-2008 | 05:33 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 1
From: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
In responce to Brett's last comment. If you run a 60 thou gap on a stock 928 ign system, esp the earlier single coil systems, I believe that you would see missing in the upper RPMS as the coil couldnt produce enough charge to keep up, and in higher CR engines would also help to prevent a spark powerfull enough to ignite the mixture.
Not only that, the cap and rotor would be worn out in very short order.
Not only that, the cap and rotor would be worn out in very short order.
You are correct but my S2 has the twin dizzy and twin coil system.
I was also running "modified" plugs...by which I mean the side electrode was ground off by me on all 8 plugs and they were a different heat range to normal....8s at the time... and it didn't work particularly well either, I finally settled on a 30 thou gap and another heat range colder...9s...
All the best Brett
11-11-2008 | 05:14 PM
#40
Racer
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 253
Likes: 1
From: The Nertherlands
Don't forget that COP's can tolerate a much bigger gap between the points of the plugs, probably leading to a better combustion.
I just converted my S to Megasquirt, together with Ford EDIS, which is a wasted spark ignition. It runs much better than with the original system. Initially, I also wanted to use COP's, but two reasons for not going this route are:
- There's hardly enough space between the heads and the intake pipes (but you will probably not have this problem with seperate TB's
- In Megasquirt-land (sounds even better;-) ) it is quite new to directly drive COP's, so one can expect quite some problems... BUT, for this last disadvantage, somebody has found a nice solution: Megasquirt can easily be connected to an EDIS module, which can directly drive BMW COP's! http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002_MSII.html
I just converted my S to Megasquirt, together with Ford EDIS, which is a wasted spark ignition. It runs much better than with the original system. Initially, I also wanted to use COP's, but two reasons for not going this route are:
- There's hardly enough space between the heads and the intake pipes (but you will probably not have this problem with seperate TB's
- In Megasquirt-land (sounds even better;-) ) it is quite new to directly drive COP's, so one can expect quite some problems... BUT, for this last disadvantage, somebody has found a nice solution: Megasquirt can easily be connected to an EDIS module, which can directly drive BMW COP's! http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002_MSII.html
11-11-2008 | 08:49 PM
#44
928 Collector
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,270
Likes: 5
From: Seattle
I've met a great many Englishmen and even dated an Engish girl ... but you're the first and only Englishman or otherwise, to have claimed clearly silly and impossible feats with his car on an open forum, and has never, no not once, backed a single outrageous statement with the slightest of fact. You, sir, are clinically insane.
Hi
I do not know whether its me personally, or maybe its English people in general or maybe its Nitrous users you do not like.....but....
Instead of constantly insulting people...
Could you try and stay on subject and give me some advantages of COP ??
All the best Brett
I do not know whether its me personally, or maybe its English people in general or maybe its Nitrous users you do not like.....but....
Instead of constantly insulting people...
Could you try and stay on subject and give me some advantages of COP ??
All the best Brett
11-11-2008 | 09:48 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 25,152
Likes: 87
I've met a great many Englishmen and even dated an Engish girl ... but you're the first and only Englishman or otherwise, to have claimed clearly silly and impossible feats with his car on an open forum, and has never, no not once, backed a single outrageous statement with the slightest of fact. You, sir, are clinically insane.
