Oil Sample Tested And Result
#1
Oil Sample Tested And Result
Hi Guys
I had a sample of my engine oil test (motul 15w50 syn ) and here is the test result they mailed me.
What do you guys think i should do as my car is boosted should i pull the engine or just carry on changing it and regular times, this oil sample had no more than 3000 miles on it and has always been changed well before its due.
Unit ID No. PORSCHE
Description. ENGINE
Make. 928GT
Model.
Location. STUART
Oil in use. 15W50
Sample P086064-001 Report Date: 04/11/2008
***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***
Symptoms: Note levels of: Tin and Silicon.:
Diagnosis: Indication of possible component wear.: Possible lubricant contamination.:
Actions: Change Oil & sample at regular intervals
Sample ID P076394-001 P086064-001
Sequence Number 1 2
Date Sampled 06/12/2007 21/10/2008
Date Received 10/12/2007 29/10/2008
Test Date 12/12/2007 3/11/2008
Unit Life
Oil Life
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status CAUTION
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHYSICAL - PROPERTIES
Viscosity @ 40c cSt 67.3 83.1
Water %wt 0.0 0.0
TIM % 0.3 0.1
SPECTROCHEMICAL - ANALYSIS
Iron mg/kg 36 8
Chromium mg/kg 2 8
Aluminium mg/kg 13 17
Molybdenum mg/kg 56 652
Copper mg/kg 44 5
Lead mg/kg 4 1
Tin mg/kg 5 42*
Nickel mg/kg 0 0
Silicon mg/kg 16 30*
Sodium mg/kg 5 6
Boron mg/kg 115 18
Vanadium mg/kg 0 1
Calcium mg/kg 2049 1286
Phosphorus mg/kg 694 919
Zinc mg/kg 891 960
Magnesium mg/kg 178 859
Barium mg/kg 1 0
I had a sample of my engine oil test (motul 15w50 syn ) and here is the test result they mailed me.
What do you guys think i should do as my car is boosted should i pull the engine or just carry on changing it and regular times, this oil sample had no more than 3000 miles on it and has always been changed well before its due.
Unit ID No. PORSCHE
Description. ENGINE
Make. 928GT
Model.
Location. STUART
Oil in use. 15W50
Sample P086064-001 Report Date: 04/11/2008
***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***Early Warning***
Symptoms: Note levels of: Tin and Silicon.:
Diagnosis: Indication of possible component wear.: Possible lubricant contamination.:
Actions: Change Oil & sample at regular intervals
Sample ID P076394-001 P086064-001
Sequence Number 1 2
Date Sampled 06/12/2007 21/10/2008
Date Received 10/12/2007 29/10/2008
Test Date 12/12/2007 3/11/2008
Unit Life
Oil Life
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status CAUTION
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHYSICAL - PROPERTIES
Viscosity @ 40c cSt 67.3 83.1
Water %wt 0.0 0.0
TIM % 0.3 0.1
SPECTROCHEMICAL - ANALYSIS
Iron mg/kg 36 8
Chromium mg/kg 2 8
Aluminium mg/kg 13 17
Molybdenum mg/kg 56 652
Copper mg/kg 44 5
Lead mg/kg 4 1
Tin mg/kg 5 42*
Nickel mg/kg 0 0
Silicon mg/kg 16 30*
Sodium mg/kg 5 6
Boron mg/kg 115 18
Vanadium mg/kg 0 1
Calcium mg/kg 2049 1286
Phosphorus mg/kg 694 919
Zinc mg/kg 891 960
Magnesium mg/kg 178 859
Barium mg/kg 1 0
#2
Rennlist Member
Stuartph,
I'm having trouble understanding the parameters. The kits that I use state values in Parts Per Million. So, I'm not sure how far out of the normal range you are with your tin and silicon. If you still have the filter, I would recommend that you cut it a part and see if you find anything in the pleats that would indicate a problem.
To help you understand the sources in the engine for tin and silicon, in general terms.
Sources for Tin are: Journal bearings, Bushings, Oil Pump bushings, Thrust Washers, Wrist Pin bushings.
Sources for Silicon are: Coolant additives, Gasket Materials, Housings Castings, Ingested Dirt.
It looks like your trend for some of the other Engine Wear Metals are also heading up....Iron, Chromium and aluminum.
Someone else may be able to chime in with specific wear items for our engines based upon your results.
At the very least, I would change oil and filter and do another analysis in 1500 miles.
Is this vehicle an automatic or a 5 speed?
Good luck and if you have the Normal- Abnormal - Excessive ranges for your elemental interpretation, be sure to post that.
Ken
I'm having trouble understanding the parameters. The kits that I use state values in Parts Per Million. So, I'm not sure how far out of the normal range you are with your tin and silicon. If you still have the filter, I would recommend that you cut it a part and see if you find anything in the pleats that would indicate a problem.
To help you understand the sources in the engine for tin and silicon, in general terms.
Sources for Tin are: Journal bearings, Bushings, Oil Pump bushings, Thrust Washers, Wrist Pin bushings.
Sources for Silicon are: Coolant additives, Gasket Materials, Housings Castings, Ingested Dirt.
It looks like your trend for some of the other Engine Wear Metals are also heading up....Iron, Chromium and aluminum.
Someone else may be able to chime in with specific wear items for our engines based upon your results.
At the very least, I would change oil and filter and do another analysis in 1500 miles.
Is this vehicle an automatic or a 5 speed?
Good luck and if you have the Normal- Abnormal - Excessive ranges for your elemental interpretation, be sure to post that.
Ken
#3
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I'm no expert but if the engine is running ok, I would do another UOA at the next change interval and see if the results are the same. If so, then try a different oil and see if the results change. Tin would indicate bearing wear, correct? And silicon is probably from the bores.
Maybe try a 0W or 10W-40 and note results. Depending on what the UOA shows, maybe try 10W-60...but use the UOA as gauge.
Btw, what type of use does the car see? Short commutes or long high speed runs?
Maybe try a 0W or 10W-40 and note results. Depending on what the UOA shows, maybe try 10W-60...but use the UOA as gauge.
Btw, what type of use does the car see? Short commutes or long high speed runs?
#6
detonation causes undue rod bearing wear.
#7
Rennlist Member
milligram/kgm = parts per million. I dont follow the two numbers - usual show is this sample, then typical. Above they look like typical, this sample, eg Tin mg/kg 5 42*
I did one recently, after a lot of intermittent use, and it came back with a caution - high lead (51) and possible fuel contamination. Doug Hillary looked the results over, and said he saw nothing to be overly concerned about, but change and retest in 2000kms, which I am working on.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k
I did one recently, after a lot of intermittent use, and it came back with a caution - high lead (51) and possible fuel contamination. Doug Hillary looked the results over, and said he saw nothing to be overly concerned about, but change and retest in 2000kms, which I am working on.
jp 83 Euro S AT 51k
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#10
Rennlist Member
Were you able to cut your filter apart and take a look?
I don't know what Doug's PM handle is....you might do a search under Oil analysis and check a couple threads for him.
I don't know anything about the Motul...I'm sure it's a good oil, but do you know what the ZDDP additive levels are.....you might want to find an oil with a high level. What I'm using is 1575 PPM Zinc / 1424 Phos.
Regards,
Ken
Ken
I don't know what Doug's PM handle is....you might do a search under Oil analysis and check a couple threads for him.
I don't know anything about the Motul...I'm sure it's a good oil, but do you know what the ZDDP additive levels are.....you might want to find an oil with a high level. What I'm using is 1575 PPM Zinc / 1424 Phos.
Regards,
Ken
Ken
#13
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Hi,
Stuart - It's always difficult to accurately comment on what really is a "single pass" UOA. So here are some comments on the wear metals, and I have assumed that the RH column is the latest UOA
Yours first my 928 database shown in brackets - then comments
Iron - 8 (9) - OK
Chromium - 8 (2) - OK
Aluminium - 17 (5) Monitor - Highest on my DBase is 15
Copper - 5 (6) OK
Lead - 1 (4) OK
Tin - 42 (NA) Monitor - Tin is rarely taken during a UOA
Other:
Silicon - 30 (7) Take action - Check intake tract for leaks - Has engine been apart recently or have any sealants been applied recently??
Chemical composition:
Unless a Virgin Oil Sample (VOA) (new oil) is taken it becomes quite irrelevant to comment unless a Total Base Number (TBN) or Total Acid Number (TAN) is obtained during a UOA
Viscosity:
Without a VOA it is difficult to be accurate but the viscosity (83.1cSt) seems "odd" for a 15W-50 synthetic lubricant
I note you are in the UK and also that the engine is charged. What Lab was used?
I would be inclined to do an oil change using a 5W-40 synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO), or a mineral 15W-40 HDEO (such as Castrol RX Super) if the ambient temperature allows, and monitor it via a UOA after 2000kms and then subject to results, again after 4000kms
I hope this helps!
I have been asked by Randy V to update a previous Thread on Lubricants for the 928 - should I include a segment on the average/high/low results from UOAs from my database? What do members think??
Stuart - It's always difficult to accurately comment on what really is a "single pass" UOA. So here are some comments on the wear metals, and I have assumed that the RH column is the latest UOA
Yours first my 928 database shown in brackets - then comments
Iron - 8 (9) - OK
Chromium - 8 (2) - OK
Aluminium - 17 (5) Monitor - Highest on my DBase is 15
Copper - 5 (6) OK
Lead - 1 (4) OK
Tin - 42 (NA) Monitor - Tin is rarely taken during a UOA
Other:
Silicon - 30 (7) Take action - Check intake tract for leaks - Has engine been apart recently or have any sealants been applied recently??
Chemical composition:
Unless a Virgin Oil Sample (VOA) (new oil) is taken it becomes quite irrelevant to comment unless a Total Base Number (TBN) or Total Acid Number (TAN) is obtained during a UOA
Viscosity:
Without a VOA it is difficult to be accurate but the viscosity (83.1cSt) seems "odd" for a 15W-50 synthetic lubricant
I note you are in the UK and also that the engine is charged. What Lab was used?
I would be inclined to do an oil change using a 5W-40 synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO), or a mineral 15W-40 HDEO (such as Castrol RX Super) if the ambient temperature allows, and monitor it via a UOA after 2000kms and then subject to results, again after 4000kms
I hope this helps!
I have been asked by Randy V to update a previous Thread on Lubricants for the 928 - should I include a segment on the average/high/low results from UOAs from my database? What do members think??
#14
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Hi,
Ken - Your comments are noted. However many chemicals make up a lubricant's additive package. All of which is carefully formulated.
Many newer anti wear (AW) and other chemicals are outperforming high levels of phos/zinc and the UOA details shown here in Stuart's UOA indicate some of these - note the Molybdenum content of the Motul product (which I suspect to be the V300 version) for example and some others too. I can't go further as I don't have a VOA on the product.
Motul has a very good reputation and they make Porsche Approved lubricants (two 5W-40 versions are Listed) - but they are not the long sought after but unobtainable "magic elixer" either
Ken - Your comments are noted. However many chemicals make up a lubricant's additive package. All of which is carefully formulated.
Many newer anti wear (AW) and other chemicals are outperforming high levels of phos/zinc and the UOA details shown here in Stuart's UOA indicate some of these - note the Molybdenum content of the Motul product (which I suspect to be the V300 version) for example and some others too. I can't go further as I don't have a VOA on the product.
Motul has a very good reputation and they make Porsche Approved lubricants (two 5W-40 versions are Listed) - but they are not the long sought after but unobtainable "magic elixer" either