Is This Timing Belt 1 Tooth Off?? 87 S-4
09-21-2008, 12:10 AM
#20
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If both sides are like that, you may be able to line them up prop'ly with the 32V'r, or at least get it pretty close. (Advancing is much easier than retarding.)
That will make a huge difference in the car's performance - still not S3.5 type power, but better.
Malcolm - you wouldn't see the cam gear notches if it were #6.
That will make a huge difference in the car's performance - still not S3.5 type power, but better.
Malcolm - you wouldn't see the cam gear notches if it were #6.
09-21-2008, 12:14 AM
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Ken and Sean. I am sure it will make a huge difference. I thought I might be able to adjust it but wanted to make sure here before I spent a lot of time fooling with something that wasn't going to work. That;s an awesome tool Ken!!!!
09-21-2008, 01:15 AM
#25
Drifting
The instructions don't actually state that. I only see where it states the center hole is 0 degrees. That could be cleared up by rewriting the instructions to actually say so.
So the '0' mark just happens to correspond with the center of the slot? Its most likely safe to just align both sprockets with the center of the slot, as cam timing is not real critical if it's off by a cam degree either way. You really don't need the tool for that.
But for indexing to see how the power curve changes with major advancing or retarding, I can see a use for the tool. But a set of calipers used by an experienced mechanic will do the same job.
So the '0' mark just happens to correspond with the center of the slot? Its most likely safe to just align both sprockets with the center of the slot, as cam timing is not real critical if it's off by a cam degree either way. You really don't need the tool for that.
But for indexing to see how the power curve changes with major advancing or retarding, I can see a use for the tool. But a set of calipers used by an experienced mechanic will do the same job.
09-21-2008, 02:06 AM
#26
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The rotor mounting hole positions in the gear slots or the big or little notch on the gear are not indicative of the true timing.
The 32V'r is indexed of the center of the cam key. (This is the zero on the V1.) The WSM method sets the cam timing to 2° (crank) advanced of the cam key center for all 32V cams. This is the zero on the V2. The difference in the WSM measurements between sides equals 2° retard for the 1/4 bank to compensate for engine expansion advance.
It's much easier to get the correct timing with the 32V'r versus using a dial indicator.
The 32V'r is indexed of the center of the cam key. (This is the zero on the V1.) The WSM method sets the cam timing to 2° (crank) advanced of the cam key center for all 32V cams. This is the zero on the V2. The difference in the WSM measurements between sides equals 2° retard for the 1/4 bank to compensate for engine expansion advance.
It's much easier to get the correct timing with the 32V'r versus using a dial indicator.
09-21-2008, 03:25 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
I asked earlier in the other thread, if the porken tool compensated for any of the variances vs the WSM, and you said no. It looks below as if the V2 system does?
My simple question is if i use the dial indicator method and set the timing for 0 driver side and -2 passenger side will this correspond with the 0 and 2 degree marks on the V2? different than the V1?
How does the WSM set the all the 32valve cams to 2 degrees advanced of the cam key centers? or are you only talking about the WSM setting for the passenger cam only.
mk
My simple question is if i use the dial indicator method and set the timing for 0 driver side and -2 passenger side will this correspond with the 0 and 2 degree marks on the V2? different than the V1?
How does the WSM set the all the 32valve cams to 2 degrees advanced of the cam key centers? or are you only talking about the WSM setting for the passenger cam only.
mk
The rotor mounting hole positions in the gear slots or the big or little notch on the gear are not indicative of the true timing.
The 32V'r is indexed of the center of the cam key. (This is the zero on the V1.) The WSM method sets the cam timing to 2° (crank) advanced of the cam key center for all 32V cams. This is the zero on the V2. The difference in the WSM measurements between sides equals 2° retard for the 1/4 bank to compensate for engine expansion advance.
It's much easier to get the correct timing with the 32V'r versus using a dial indicator.
The 32V'r is indexed of the center of the cam key. (This is the zero on the V1.) The WSM method sets the cam timing to 2° (crank) advanced of the cam key center for all 32V cams. This is the zero on the V2. The difference in the WSM measurements between sides equals 2° retard for the 1/4 bank to compensate for engine expansion advance.
It's much easier to get the correct timing with the 32V'r versus using a dial indicator.
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-21-2008 at 02:39 PM.
09-21-2008, 03:40 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
if the pulleys are aligned with the strung belt to the marks, that entire system is correct. thats all it is supposed to do. the fact that you have the porken tool showing full retard, and the screw is at the retard max point, tells you that all you need to do is advance the cams with the tool and get it all to 0. (or 0 and -2 to get it to spec)
mk
mk
If the notches in the cam are lined up with the TDC mark, then the gears were installed correctly, unless there is no woodruf key there.
From the last pictures, it looks like the cams gears are adjusted wrong on the cam. Move the cams and you should be ok.
They are installed at the bottom end of the adjustment, move 'em and I think things will be correct.
From the last pictures, it looks like the cams gears are adjusted wrong on the cam. Move the cams and you should be ok.
They are installed at the bottom end of the adjustment, move 'em and I think things will be correct.
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-21-2008 at 02:38 PM.
09-21-2008, 02:53 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I suppose if the cam pulleys were strung with the belt and aligned perfectly with the slots, then the rotor holes might be right in the middle of the slots. However, this is highly unlikely, as Ken has stated. we are talking about such a small movement to make a 1-2 degree crank advance, that you would never be able to see the difference. However, to the contrary, if you did use the tool initially, or set the cams with the WSM, you could use the slot for making changes. I did this and verified this with the WSM. I wanted to move 6 degrees retard on my advanced cams. I used the slot and moved 1.5mm and it was exactly 0. on the otherside, i wanted to correct a advance issue, i moved the cam 1mm in the slot and corrected the issue. This could be good for a crude adjustment, but you would easily be off +/- 1 crank degree.
mk
mk
The instructions don't actually state that. I only see where it states the center hole is 0 degrees. That could be cleared up by rewriting the instructions to actually say so.
So the '0' mark just happens to correspond with the center of the slot? Its most likely safe to just align both sprockets with the center of the slot, as cam timing is not real critical if it's off by a cam degree either way. You really don't need the tool for that.
But for indexing to see how the power curve changes with major advancing or retarding, I can see a use for the tool. But a set of calipers used by an experienced mechanic will do the same job.
So the '0' mark just happens to correspond with the center of the slot? Its most likely safe to just align both sprockets with the center of the slot, as cam timing is not real critical if it's off by a cam degree either way. You really don't need the tool for that.
But for indexing to see how the power curve changes with major advancing or retarding, I can see a use for the tool. But a set of calipers used by an experienced mechanic will do the same job.
09-21-2008, 02:58 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Jack, how did it end-up? Did you find the power?
Ditto, Mark, how is the stroker motor after the re-time?
Porken, shouldn't Mark be giving you ad space on the side of the Holbert car?
Ditto, Mark, how is the stroker motor after the re-time?
Porken, shouldn't Mark be giving you ad space on the side of the Holbert car?