My Pony Express Tale
08-28-2008, 07:30 PM
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My Pony Express Tale
As some of you have heard, the 2008 Pony Express was run last weekend. I had entered my
928 in the 160 class with a 200 mph tech (unlimited in the speed traps). Rich S had agreed to
be navigator again, even after the last adventure ( https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/358161-george-and-rich-still-alive-189mph-928-s4-flatline.html ).
We arrived in Battle Mt. on Thursday, and went through Tech then to Practice on Friday. The car
had some problems at Practice, lot's of oil blowing off on top of the engine and was a way down on
power. We were only able to hit 192 mph, only 3 mph higher then last year! Something wasn't
right. When we got back to the motel, Rich spotted a 1 1/2" split in the oil breather line going to
the oil separator. So this was the easy problem to fix. I studied the LM-1 logs, and found lots of
knocking at above 180 mph, even with the AFR mostly in the 11.5-12.4 range. So I decided I should
run Race Gas (104 unleaded), change to colder plugs, and change the EZ-K chip. The Race Gas
was pretty easy:
Getting colder plugs were a problem. The coldest plugs we could find in Battle Mt. turned out
to be 1 heat range hotter then what I was already running, so no go with this solution. After changing
the EZ-K chip I did a "test" run and found the AFR was a too lean, though it got richer as the RPM
increased. I bumped up the fuel pressure 5 psi and did another run. It got a closer to what I
wanted, but since it was getting dark and I couldn't test over 150 mph, I had to call it a day.
Sunday was race day, we were grid last so we got to hang out while the temperature went from
75 degrees at 8 AM to 100 degrees by noon. I bumped up the fuel pressure a little more and
hoped it would be enough.
Here are a few shots from the Starting Grid:
As you can see we had washed the night before.
(the competition behind us)
They started the Supersport cars at 11:30 AM, we were the 4th SS car, so we left at 11:39.
Well the car still had some problems, when shifting into 4th the AFR was in the 14-13 range
and the car had trouble accelerating. As the speed increased, the AFR dropped. By 5000
RPM (~174 mph) we were in the 12.5 range, and the car felt a lot better. We cruised at 175-178
mph until we got to the first speed trap. There's a left hand sweeper before the straight, we
went through at 170 and started the speed run at around 175 mph. As we passed the
speed trap, the sign displayed 198 mph.
(screen shot from in-car video)
Right after the trap the GPS went to 199 mph and we were still accelerating. We didn't
miss it by that much. Without the 5-10 mph head wind we would have been at 204-209
mph...
There's another turn before the 2nd speed trap, a Right Hand Sweeper. The course notes
said 155 mph, but I knew if we went that slow I couldn't accelerate out of it very well. So we
discussed our options. I could keep it above 170 and try for 200 again, or slow down and
just see what we get. Since we didn't get the 200 in the first trap (and we need both over
200 to get into the 200 mph club) we decided it wasn't worth pushing it, and I slowed to
155. The car struggle to get back up to speed, but we still got to 186 mph.
Then while in the Gap, a slow twisty section of the course, I lost throttle response coming
out of a right hand turn. We had to coast into the next turn and park at the open space on the side
of the road, which turned out to be Checkpoint 6 at House Curve. There was a AFR (Advanced
Fire Rescue) truck stationed there. The fire crew rushed to the car saying there's oil all over
the car (driver's side) and then smoke started coming out of the hood vents. We opened the
hood, no fire, just hot oil on the manifold...
Our race was over. The sweep vehicle came by and took Rich to the South stagging area
and I stayed with the car to take photos of the other cars. After the race Rich Kimble offered
to pick up the car and take it into Battle Mt. Moday I borrowed a truck and trailer from Les S,
here in the Bay Area, and drove up on Tuesday with Bill B, to retrieve the car.
Saturday we'll start looking at the engine to see what's up...
As a side note, I've been doing a lot of logging with the LM-1 and LMA-3. I had a chance to
log the run in the Speed Trap. For those that are interested, here is a screen shot of the
LogWorks view of the run:
Still a lot to work out in the tuning department, but it'll have to wait until we get the engine
running again.
Even though it wasn't quite what I wanted, it's still a decent showing. I want to thank Dave L
at Motorsport for the work on the engine, Tim M (Murf) and Tom C (PowerBroker) for help tuning
the motor, Mike S, Theo J. and Dave A for help with the logging, and most of all to Bill B for all
his tireless helping with this project. Also thanks to all here on the Rennlist that donated to the
cause. I plan to be back next year.
I'll post video of the speed run and the run through the Gap later.
928 in the 160 class with a 200 mph tech (unlimited in the speed traps). Rich S had agreed to
be navigator again, even after the last adventure ( https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/358161-george-and-rich-still-alive-189mph-928-s4-flatline.html ).
We arrived in Battle Mt. on Thursday, and went through Tech then to Practice on Friday. The car
had some problems at Practice, lot's of oil blowing off on top of the engine and was a way down on
power. We were only able to hit 192 mph, only 3 mph higher then last year! Something wasn't
right. When we got back to the motel, Rich spotted a 1 1/2" split in the oil breather line going to
the oil separator. So this was the easy problem to fix. I studied the LM-1 logs, and found lots of
knocking at above 180 mph, even with the AFR mostly in the 11.5-12.4 range. So I decided I should
run Race Gas (104 unleaded), change to colder plugs, and change the EZ-K chip. The Race Gas
was pretty easy:
Getting colder plugs were a problem. The coldest plugs we could find in Battle Mt. turned out
to be 1 heat range hotter then what I was already running, so no go with this solution. After changing
the EZ-K chip I did a "test" run and found the AFR was a too lean, though it got richer as the RPM
increased. I bumped up the fuel pressure 5 psi and did another run. It got a closer to what I
wanted, but since it was getting dark and I couldn't test over 150 mph, I had to call it a day.
Sunday was race day, we were grid last so we got to hang out while the temperature went from
75 degrees at 8 AM to 100 degrees by noon. I bumped up the fuel pressure a little more and
hoped it would be enough.
Here are a few shots from the Starting Grid:
As you can see we had washed the night before.
(the competition behind us)
They started the Supersport cars at 11:30 AM, we were the 4th SS car, so we left at 11:39.
Well the car still had some problems, when shifting into 4th the AFR was in the 14-13 range
and the car had trouble accelerating. As the speed increased, the AFR dropped. By 5000
RPM (~174 mph) we were in the 12.5 range, and the car felt a lot better. We cruised at 175-178
mph until we got to the first speed trap. There's a left hand sweeper before the straight, we
went through at 170 and started the speed run at around 175 mph. As we passed the
speed trap, the sign displayed 198 mph.
(screen shot from in-car video)
Right after the trap the GPS went to 199 mph and we were still accelerating. We didn't
miss it by that much. Without the 5-10 mph head wind we would have been at 204-209
mph...
There's another turn before the 2nd speed trap, a Right Hand Sweeper. The course notes
said 155 mph, but I knew if we went that slow I couldn't accelerate out of it very well. So we
discussed our options. I could keep it above 170 and try for 200 again, or slow down and
just see what we get. Since we didn't get the 200 in the first trap (and we need both over
200 to get into the 200 mph club) we decided it wasn't worth pushing it, and I slowed to
155. The car struggle to get back up to speed, but we still got to 186 mph.
Then while in the Gap, a slow twisty section of the course, I lost throttle response coming
out of a right hand turn. We had to coast into the next turn and park at the open space on the side
of the road, which turned out to be Checkpoint 6 at House Curve. There was a AFR (Advanced
Fire Rescue) truck stationed there. The fire crew rushed to the car saying there's oil all over
the car (driver's side) and then smoke started coming out of the hood vents. We opened the
hood, no fire, just hot oil on the manifold...
Our race was over. The sweep vehicle came by and took Rich to the South stagging area
and I stayed with the car to take photos of the other cars. After the race Rich Kimble offered
to pick up the car and take it into Battle Mt. Moday I borrowed a truck and trailer from Les S,
here in the Bay Area, and drove up on Tuesday with Bill B, to retrieve the car.
Saturday we'll start looking at the engine to see what's up...
As a side note, I've been doing a lot of logging with the LM-1 and LMA-3. I had a chance to
log the run in the Speed Trap. For those that are interested, here is a screen shot of the
LogWorks view of the run:
Still a lot to work out in the tuning department, but it'll have to wait until we get the engine
running again.
Even though it wasn't quite what I wanted, it's still a decent showing. I want to thank Dave L
at Motorsport for the work on the engine, Tim M (Murf) and Tom C (PowerBroker) for help tuning
the motor, Mike S, Theo J. and Dave A for help with the logging, and most of all to Bill B for all
his tireless helping with this project. Also thanks to all here on the Rennlist that donated to the
cause. I plan to be back next year.
I'll post video of the speed run and the run through the Gap later.
08-28-2008, 08:27 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Well George, not the day you were hoping for, but some very positive indications none the less.
I can't imagine the frustration of hitting 198 or 199 when looking for 200.
It sounds like you're just inches from a solid 200+ day.
Here's hoping for a dead calm next time you go.
I can't imagine the frustration of hitting 198 or 199 when looking for 200.
It sounds like you're just inches from a solid 200+ day.
Here's hoping for a dead calm next time you go.
08-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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199 mph, you are real close. Next year for sure George! I hope the internals are all OK and it is just an electrical or minor issue. Oil control sure is an issue in ORR with 928's. I struggle with that one myself.
Good thoughts and all the best with the diagnostics this weekend.
Good thoughts and all the best with the diagnostics this weekend.
08-28-2008, 08:51 PM
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George, Saturday is now wide-open for diagnostics. Hoping it's just the LH or the fuel pump relay and a minor oil leak, but we'll take this a step at a time, making sure the internals are intact before we try to start it. If so, then we'll take our time over the off-season to give it a proper tune.
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08-28-2008, 09:14 PM
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George-
Sorry to hear you didn't make it all the way. Hopefully the oil is nothing serious.
Looking at the logworks pic (BTW, it's REALLY hard to read) everythign looks pretty good. The only 2 comments I have is:
1. Fuel pressure is falling off - you might need to go to an 044 pump if you don't have one already
2. MAF voltage is wavering a little bit, but doesn't seem to be affecting anything.
If your oil is an issue, you reall should consider an electronic oil pressure sending unit for logging purposes. I assume you have an XD16 guage - if so you can setup an alarm if OP goes below 4 bar or something like that. Just a suggestion.
Sorry to hear you didn't make it all the way. Hopefully the oil is nothing serious.
Looking at the logworks pic (BTW, it's REALLY hard to read) everythign looks pretty good. The only 2 comments I have is:
1. Fuel pressure is falling off - you might need to go to an 044 pump if you don't have one already
2. MAF voltage is wavering a little bit, but doesn't seem to be affecting anything.
If your oil is an issue, you reall should consider an electronic oil pressure sending unit for logging purposes. I assume you have an XD16 guage - if so you can setup an alarm if OP goes below 4 bar or something like that. Just a suggestion.
08-28-2008, 09:36 PM
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Wow, I wouldn't be too disappointed with 199. That is a great run and hopefully nothing major wrong with the engine. So what does it feel like at that speed, stable or touchy?
Good luck on getting it up and running and getting ready for next year.
Good luck on getting it up and running and getting ready for next year.
08-29-2008, 12:01 AM
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Thanks all for the supportive comments. The car was very stable at that speed, didn't feel floaty or
twitchy.
Andrew, I am running a 044, in fact, I had Dave ship out a new one on Friday because it was whining
and wasn't able to keep the fuel pressure up. The new one doesn't whine, but the fuel pressure is still
dropping... I was communicating with Mike S. about this, but still don't have it resolved.
As for a bigger image of the LogWorks screen, try:
http://928.jorj7.com/2008-pony/103/L...-4th-speed.jpg
I don't have a XD16 gauge, they're pretty expensive. So far I'm just logging on the LM-1 or laptop.
It might be something to consider after I get the car running well.
Bill,
Do you want to start at 11?
Thanks,
twitchy.
Andrew, I am running a 044, in fact, I had Dave ship out a new one on Friday because it was whining
and wasn't able to keep the fuel pressure up. The new one doesn't whine, but the fuel pressure is still
dropping... I was communicating with Mike S. about this, but still don't have it resolved.
As for a bigger image of the LogWorks screen, try:
http://928.jorj7.com/2008-pony/103/L...-4th-speed.jpg
I don't have a XD16 gauge, they're pretty expensive. So far I'm just logging on the LM-1 or laptop.
It might be something to consider after I get the car running well.
Bill,
Do you want to start at 11?
Thanks,
08-29-2008, 12:36 AM
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George,
I really admire folks like yourself who are pushing the envelope of what a 928 can do. Thanks for sharing and keep on keeping on... I've got my fingers crossed, hoping there are just some minor issues to resolve before getting her back on the road to 200+.
ATB,
Bill
I really admire folks like yourself who are pushing the envelope of what a 928 can do. Thanks for sharing and keep on keeping on... I've got my fingers crossed, hoping there are just some minor issues to resolve before getting her back on the road to 200+.
ATB,
Bill
08-29-2008, 01:57 AM
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I want to thank George for another shot at 200mph....we damn near made it! 
(As far as my wife Ann is concerned, 199mph=200mph...)
After our slow practice speeds, and the problems indicated by the computer logs, I really didn't think we would get that close. Especially with high temps and headwinds. Heck, we couldn't even accelerate up to our tech speed of 180mph very well, let alone have any hope of averaging 177mph to the gap like I had planned with the course notes.
But damn, as we entered the open trap section and I called out the A/F ratio and GPS speed (the speedo wasn't working at all, so we relied on the GPS) the speed steadily increased past 192, 193, 194, 195..196...("Holy ****, this is gonna be close..") 197.....198.....("we might actually have a chance")....199......199........"****! That's it, end of trap." I saw 198 on the speed trap read-out, 199 on the GPS. Car felt 100% ROCK SOLID....even better than last year at 189mph and even better than practice day at 192mph. It's like George and the car were in the zone. I congratulated him over the intercom on a job well done, he almost got us there....
Now my thoughts turned to timing. No reason to push it in the next trap, lets just finish this leg. Car was handling great, but nowhere near our planned 177mph avereage. No big deal, I figured I could adjust out return leg timing as needed at the turn-around. George entered the Gap somewhat hot, pushing a little faster around the turns...we planned on averaging 138 thru here, so a little more would be OK. Setting up for the House Curve George told me the car was gone, no response. I just thought he was slowing down naturally from 140mph for the 115mph turn. But we were coasting to another DNF. Someone must be watching over us, another uneventful finish considering the potential consequences. Nice job again George.
Can't wait for the in-car video...even though I had a front row seat, I was so busy concentrating on GPS speeds, A/F ratio, fuel pressure, calling all this out to George, that I honestly didn't have time to let the feeling of 199mph sink in. Again, the car was so planted to the road, and it felt so right, I could have closed my eyes and felt like we were parked.
Thanks again George, lets hope the engine is OK.....
Rich
(As far as my wife Ann is concerned, 199mph=200mph...)After our slow practice speeds, and the problems indicated by the computer logs, I really didn't think we would get that close. Especially with high temps and headwinds. Heck, we couldn't even accelerate up to our tech speed of 180mph very well, let alone have any hope of averaging 177mph to the gap like I had planned with the course notes.
But damn, as we entered the open trap section and I called out the A/F ratio and GPS speed (the speedo wasn't working at all, so we relied on the GPS) the speed steadily increased past 192, 193, 194, 195..196...("Holy ****, this is gonna be close..") 197.....198.....("we might actually have a chance")....199......199........"****! That's it, end of trap." I saw 198 on the speed trap read-out, 199 on the GPS. Car felt 100% ROCK SOLID....even better than last year at 189mph and even better than practice day at 192mph. It's like George and the car were in the zone. I congratulated him over the intercom on a job well done, he almost got us there....
Now my thoughts turned to timing. No reason to push it in the next trap, lets just finish this leg. Car was handling great, but nowhere near our planned 177mph avereage. No big deal, I figured I could adjust out return leg timing as needed at the turn-around. George entered the Gap somewhat hot, pushing a little faster around the turns...we planned on averaging 138 thru here, so a little more would be OK. Setting up for the House Curve George told me the car was gone, no response. I just thought he was slowing down naturally from 140mph for the 115mph turn. But we were coasting to another DNF. Someone must be watching over us, another uneventful finish considering the potential consequences. Nice job again George.
Can't wait for the in-car video...even though I had a front row seat, I was so busy concentrating on GPS speeds, A/F ratio, fuel pressure, calling all this out to George, that I honestly didn't have time to let the feeling of 199mph sink in. Again, the car was so planted to the road, and it felt so right, I could have closed my eyes and felt like we were parked.
Thanks again George, lets hope the engine is OK.....
Rich