Attn Tim Murphy (long rant)
05-25-2008, 01:06 AM
#17
Tim and the guys currently make the only reliable, repeatable supercharger kit for the S4. They make it not for production profit, but because they like to make these cars better. I think your statement in the first paragraph is most telling:
I'm pretty sure a simply set of phone calls to certain people could have solved this. Its a slow weekend - and when people get back on, I think the few dozen kit owners will come on here and support Tim and the guys as well.
My original choice was the new kit from 928 Specialists – I liked the design and Bill Ball has graciously agreed to install the supercharged (he was/is interested in seeing it action)
05-25-2008, 01:08 AM
#18
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One thing I've leaned about the 928, always budget about 10 times the amount of time you think it will take to complete a project on the car.
I hope this gets squared away, because a murph sc was on my wishlist of things to do...
I hope this gets squared away, because a murph sc was on my wishlist of things to do...
05-25-2008, 01:12 AM
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I agree with you. I am not sure that posting this will help me. And it's safe to say that this would be far from pleasant reading for Tim. I just don't feel that I have many options at this point. Don't forget: driving a car cross-country is pretty complicated in terms of logistics and isn't cheap. Just today I rented a garage only to find out two hours later that the car is consistently overheating. And that's the beginning.
What really gets me is the fact that all this was easily avoidable. I understand that if it wasn't for Tim's interest and enthusiasm there wouldn't be a kit to buy. And, once again, I appreciate what people like Tim and Carl do for the community. But I still think that I got the short end of the stick and that things have to be corrected ASAP. That is why I wrote this post - to attract Tim's attention, however unpleasant it may be for him. I do not set out to ruin anybody's weekend, but I also do not think that mine and what's worse Bill's is already ruined. Tell me if you think I am wrong - I am willing listen and learn.
05-25-2008, 01:15 AM
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I assure you we have been calling the right people since early April. The reason why I started this admittedly unpleasant thread is because I am afraid that the will not resolved. But I do appreciate the message of hope - thank you
05-25-2008, 01:16 AM
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05-25-2008, 01:17 AM
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05-25-2008, 01:24 AM
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I couldn't agree more - this should have happened.
I will get over it. But as I pointed out earlier (you may have missed it), we are not talking about a natural catastrophe or a health problem. I paid for something, I gave the provider of goods ample time (and moreover I continue to incur expenses - hotels, car rental (and I thought I had car...), garages in CA and here) and what has been delivered is sub par. Do you care to site an argument I may have overlooked that will make all this okay? Please - I would be quite grateful.
I will get over it. But as I pointed out earlier (you may have missed it), we are not talking about a natural catastrophe or a health problem. I paid for something, I gave the provider of goods ample time (and moreover I continue to incur expenses - hotels, car rental (and I thought I had car...), garages in CA and here) and what has been delivered is sub par. Do you care to site an argument I may have overlooked that will make all this okay? Please - I would be quite grateful.
There are MANY people that Carl, Bill and Tim have helped here.
I have no doubt that for reasons beyond Carls, Bills or Tims control hold the reasons for the delay in you getting your parts.
What exactly did you expect to accomplish by making your original post?
Do you think they were just sitting back laughing at you because they could hold your parts?
I waited over four months for my first supercharger kit to arrive from Procharger.
The added expense that you have incurred are exactly who's fault?
We are talking about very specialized parts that have to come from a manufacture in the middle of "Race Season", like Vortec.
You should have picked up the phone and talked to Tim and got the story from him, you did do that right? I may have missed that in your post.
I understand you want you car, but your post is not going to make it happen any sooner, all it is going to do is get you on the wrong side of Tims and Carls supporters here.
05-25-2008, 01:25 AM
#25
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As some of you may know, I have been wanting to supercharge my car for a while now. My original choice was the new kit from 928 Specialists – I liked the design and Bill Ball has graciously agreed to install the supercharged (he was/is interested in seeing it action). I kept the car in California and put my name on the list with 928 Specialists, but unfortunately things took longer than planned as Dave has had some health issues. I have absolutely no problem with that – it could’ve had happened to anybody – and wish DR the best of health (and success with the kit as well).
In the meantime I turned to 928 Motorsport – Carl is offering Murph supercharger kits with 2-3 week delivery time. I bought a Stage 1 kit (with optional $125 auxiliary fan) in early March planning to have it installed in April and then drive the car across the country to SITM. All during the purchase (and afterwards) Carl was quite helpful. He mentioned the 2-3 week turnaround time and the fact that 928 Motorsport will charge me the full amount right away, not when the kit would be shipped – I had no problem with that. But Carl also mentioned the fact the kits are assembled and ready to go.
To make a long story short (there were at least three different shipping dates), the kit finally arrived on the 6th of May, right before Sharks in the Park. Now, I already mentioned that Bill Ball was doing all the work (my plans to help went out the window with the first missed delivery date). Contrary to what some of us may or would like to think, Bill is not a professional mechanic and has life of his own. He couldn’t get the to install until last week and I have no right to complain whatsoever there – I already imposed on him more than enough.
So here are my itemized complaints:
The kit arrived late – a LOT later than it should have.
The kit is modified – I got a different supercharger than previous customers and needless to say I do not appreciate being a beta tester for the new design.
The kit arrived without instructions.
The kit arrived without the auxiliary fan.
Right now I am about to get on the plane to CA and finding out that the car is running consistently hot with noticeable engine hesitation/surge. So I am writing this in hope of getting some attention (and getting things right)
So to resume: Bill spent countless hours on this, I spent a fair bit of money, I have hotel bookings from CA all the way to NC, me and a friend of mine took vacations to accommodate the trip and the darn thing is not working properly. Moreover, it’s not all there – no fan (remember – it’s running hot).
I understand that Tim has a job and does this because of his engineering curiosity and his enthusiasm for the cars. And I appreciate this. I also do not think that parties involved make a great deal of money on the kits. And, once again, I am grateful for the effort. But these kits are not being given away, they are sold. And this is no way to sell anything.
Even though this is a holiday weekend, I would like for Tim Murphy (whom I do not know personally) to do his outmost best to get this right and do that right away. I see no reason why Bill’s weekend (and my vacation) should be any worse than Tim’s. Thank you for your time and attention.
In the meantime I turned to 928 Motorsport – Carl is offering Murph supercharger kits with 2-3 week delivery time. I bought a Stage 1 kit (with optional $125 auxiliary fan) in early March planning to have it installed in April and then drive the car across the country to SITM. All during the purchase (and afterwards) Carl was quite helpful. He mentioned the 2-3 week turnaround time and the fact that 928 Motorsport will charge me the full amount right away, not when the kit would be shipped – I had no problem with that. But Carl also mentioned the fact the kits are assembled and ready to go.
To make a long story short (there were at least three different shipping dates), the kit finally arrived on the 6th of May, right before Sharks in the Park. Now, I already mentioned that Bill Ball was doing all the work (my plans to help went out the window with the first missed delivery date). Contrary to what some of us may or would like to think, Bill is not a professional mechanic and has life of his own. He couldn’t get the to install until last week and I have no right to complain whatsoever there – I already imposed on him more than enough.
So here are my itemized complaints:
The kit arrived late – a LOT later than it should have.
The kit is modified – I got a different supercharger than previous customers and needless to say I do not appreciate being a beta tester for the new design.
The kit arrived without instructions.
The kit arrived without the auxiliary fan.
Right now I am about to get on the plane to CA and finding out that the car is running consistently hot with noticeable engine hesitation/surge. So I am writing this in hope of getting some attention (and getting things right)
So to resume: Bill spent countless hours on this, I spent a fair bit of money, I have hotel bookings from CA all the way to NC, me and a friend of mine took vacations to accommodate the trip and the darn thing is not working properly. Moreover, it’s not all there – no fan (remember – it’s running hot).
I understand that Tim has a job and does this because of his engineering curiosity and his enthusiasm for the cars. And I appreciate this. I also do not think that parties involved make a great deal of money on the kits. And, once again, I am grateful for the effort. But these kits are not being given away, they are sold. And this is no way to sell anything.
Even though this is a holiday weekend, I would like for Tim Murphy (whom I do not know personally) to do his outmost best to get this right and do that right away. I see no reason why Bill’s weekend (and my vacation) should be any worse than Tim’s. Thank you for your time and attention.
Airing your dirty laundry in public is not a smart thing in my not so humble opinion.
Tim Murphy is a close, personal, friend and I have never known him to NOT go out of his way to help out a fellow 928er - customer, friend, enthsiast or otherwise. I'm sure a simple call to Tim would have resolved any and all issues in a timely manner.
I know for a fact that the SCer you are getting is the latest and greatest from Vortech. If Tim had swapped in a Raptor or some other branded SCer into his kit without notice, I could understand your concern. But as it stands, what do you care if it's a Vssi, XDRT, rewa, WTF? You want boost. Reliable boost. Tim and Carl stand behind every product they sell and if this were not a viable method for providing you relible boost, I'm sure they would not have gone this route. I think this non-issue and you should be thankful that they don't ask you to pony up $200 to get teh latest and greatest.
In my opinion you should call Tim right now, and take care of your issues privately.
Also, (no offense to Bill Ball intended whatsoever) it sounds like you are taking an easy-route to have someone install your kit for you rather than installing it yourself. This can only lead to you either blaming the installer or the kit for any issue you may have. Not sure what the mileage is on your car, but when boosting any high-mileage car, I have found it will reveal any deficiencies that may have been masking. This is not a fault of the SCer, but a fault in the owner for not having kept up with maitenance items.
I say you re-evaluate if you're that right kind of person to have a SCer kit. Because if you're getting you nuts in a bunch over this, if you have any issue with the car from this point forward... and you will... you will be quick to blame the SCer kit, when in all likelihood, it will be something else but is magnified because of the kit.
Whatever you do, do not air your dirty laundry here on rennlist without at leeast trying to resolve it with your suppliers first. I think you owe that to your vendor and the rest of us.
05-25-2008, 01:33 AM
#26
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Ryan,
I agree with you. I am not sure that posting this will help me. And it's safe to say that this would be far from pleasant reading for Tim. I just don't feel that I have many options at this point. Don't forget: driving a car cross-country is pretty complicated in terms of logistics and isn't cheap. Just today I rented a garage only to find out two hours later that the car is consistently overheating. And that's the beginning.
What really gets me is the fact that all this was easily avoidable. I understand that if it wasn't for Tim's interest and enthusiasm there wouldn't be a kit to buy. And, once again, I appreciate what people like Tim and Carl do for the community. But I still think that I got the short end of the stick and that things have to be corrected ASAP. That is why I wrote this post - to attract Tim's attention, however unpleasant it may be for him. I do not set out to ruin anybody's weekend, but I also do not think that mine and what's worse Bill's is already ruined. Tell me if you think I am wrong - I am willing listen and learn.
I agree with you. I am not sure that posting this will help me. And it's safe to say that this would be far from pleasant reading for Tim. I just don't feel that I have many options at this point. Don't forget: driving a car cross-country is pretty complicated in terms of logistics and isn't cheap. Just today I rented a garage only to find out two hours later that the car is consistently overheating. And that's the beginning.
What really gets me is the fact that all this was easily avoidable. I understand that if it wasn't for Tim's interest and enthusiasm there wouldn't be a kit to buy. And, once again, I appreciate what people like Tim and Carl do for the community. But I still think that I got the short end of the stick and that things have to be corrected ASAP. That is why I wrote this post - to attract Tim's attention, however unpleasant it may be for him. I do not set out to ruin anybody's weekend, but I also do not think that mine and what's worse Bill's is already ruined. Tell me if you think I am wrong - I am willing listen and learn.
It is worth it in the end.
To install a supercharger and try to get in it and drive it across country is a fools errand, doubly so if you did not do the install your self.
BTDT, 1400 mile trip the morning after my first superchager install, trust me on this, it is not a good plan.
I know this is going to get worked out for you, just give it more time.
Greg
05-25-2008, 01:41 AM
#27
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Cliff:
Interesting comment on the surging problem. This car, which had a rock-stable idle before, is surging at idle and has a slight stumble/surge on steady throttle cruising at low speed. Acceleration is good. I checked vacuum at the front damper and it's fluctuating but it is 18-20! I need to check that some more. The SC is a new unit with no external oil feed. Four ounces of oil is self-contained and is changed every 7500 miles. I assume with a leak I would see oil inside the air tubes leading back to the MAF. This Stage 1 kit uses stock injectors and has a non-adjustable FMU in series with the stock fuel pressure regulator. I will look at fuel pressure as well. The kit does not include A/F or vac/boost gauges, but I have some spares I'm going to install at least for diagnostics.
Others reading:
I didn't suggest or encourage this thread at all, but I understand Konstatin's frustration. I don't think it was clear initially when buying the kit that Carl was not the supplier, even though we knew it was a Murph kit. Carl was paid and nothing happened for a quite a while. After calling Carl we learned Tim was shipping it. No problem. I like Tim as much as anyone here. Anyway, there were a series of delays before the kit arrived. We were on a tight schedule which is one reason Konstantin went with this kit rather than DR's.
I had a few problems during the installation even though I had done an installation on George Suennen's car, and Tim was helpful with emails and calls, as usual. After getting back from an open road racing trip, I finished it and when I fired it up, it ran very smoothly at first. Then as it warmed up the surge appeared, minor at first, but now noticeable. Then when I drove it, the overheating appeared, even on a 65 degree overcast day. Technically it's not really overheating, but it is indicating 210 after driving only 5 or 6 miles on level ground at highway speeds. It gets to the same point rather quickly in the driveway, and the radiator shows 196F at the top and 165F at the bottom outlet, car sitting with fans running (and pulling correctly). Odd for a 65F day and a 75C (170F) t-stat. Worrisome for a trip across the country in a few days. I think the temp should be in the 140s at the radiator outlet, but I would appreciate advice on that.
I was not surprised when there was no front pusher fan. The fans with the SC kit only cover a portion of the radiator and the center is obstructed by the SC inlet, but I thought Stage 1 commonly did OK w/o the front fan. It would be hard to fit anyway with the stock louvers and louver motor in the way. That may have to go. It appears a front pusher is needed. If that doesn't fix it, then I will pull the water pump, which means pulling the SC too. Who knows, it could be in the throws of a coincidental impeller failure. I already did the t-stat. The old one looked fine and was a 75C as well.
Anyway, Konstantin had purchased tickets to fly out tomorrow and pick up his car after several reschedules and we are in the 11th hour, so frustration is rising.
Interesting comment on the surging problem. This car, which had a rock-stable idle before, is surging at idle and has a slight stumble/surge on steady throttle cruising at low speed. Acceleration is good. I checked vacuum at the front damper and it's fluctuating but it is 18-20! I need to check that some more. The SC is a new unit with no external oil feed. Four ounces of oil is self-contained and is changed every 7500 miles. I assume with a leak I would see oil inside the air tubes leading back to the MAF. This Stage 1 kit uses stock injectors and has a non-adjustable FMU in series with the stock fuel pressure regulator. I will look at fuel pressure as well. The kit does not include A/F or vac/boost gauges, but I have some spares I'm going to install at least for diagnostics.
Others reading:
I didn't suggest or encourage this thread at all, but I understand Konstatin's frustration. I don't think it was clear initially when buying the kit that Carl was not the supplier, even though we knew it was a Murph kit. Carl was paid and nothing happened for a quite a while. After calling Carl we learned Tim was shipping it. No problem. I like Tim as much as anyone here. Anyway, there were a series of delays before the kit arrived. We were on a tight schedule which is one reason Konstantin went with this kit rather than DR's.
I had a few problems during the installation even though I had done an installation on George Suennen's car, and Tim was helpful with emails and calls, as usual. After getting back from an open road racing trip, I finished it and when I fired it up, it ran very smoothly at first. Then as it warmed up the surge appeared, minor at first, but now noticeable. Then when I drove it, the overheating appeared, even on a 65 degree overcast day. Technically it's not really overheating, but it is indicating 210 after driving only 5 or 6 miles on level ground at highway speeds. It gets to the same point rather quickly in the driveway, and the radiator shows 196F at the top and 165F at the bottom outlet, car sitting with fans running (and pulling correctly). Odd for a 65F day and a 75C (170F) t-stat. Worrisome for a trip across the country in a few days. I think the temp should be in the 140s at the radiator outlet, but I would appreciate advice on that.
I was not surprised when there was no front pusher fan. The fans with the SC kit only cover a portion of the radiator and the center is obstructed by the SC inlet, but I thought Stage 1 commonly did OK w/o the front fan. It would be hard to fit anyway with the stock louvers and louver motor in the way. That may have to go. It appears a front pusher is needed. If that doesn't fix it, then I will pull the water pump, which means pulling the SC too. Who knows, it could be in the throws of a coincidental impeller failure. I already did the t-stat. The old one looked fine and was a 75C as well.
Anyway, Konstantin had purchased tickets to fly out tomorrow and pick up his car after several reschedules and we are in the 11th hour, so frustration is rising.
Last edited by Bill Ball; 05-25-2008 at 02:19 AM.
05-25-2008, 01:47 AM
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I am sorry, but I think you’re substituting the issue here. If you read this thread carefully you will notice that I never made any disparaging remarks against either Tim or Carl personally. I do not know Tim and have nothing but nice things to say about how Carl dealt with me. I understand and that both men have very solid reputations and do not want to destroy either. I do see the conflict between this statement and the fact that I posted this thread. I also want to get was sold to me. This is a simplistic but, I think, also a very much normal position. And, btw, I really do not mind paying for the supercharger upgrade – I dare anybody to say that I am looking for a freeby here.
Now for the easy route – you are right. I did want a supercharger and did not want to do it by myself in New York, far from the source of 928 expertise known to me. With the 928 Specialist kit I also opted for the install option (I think we talked about this on the phone – the conversation, for which I am thankful). But what that boils down to is Bill Ball being nicer than most people I know and not my unworthiness to have the kit. As for the maintenance – the car is quite well maintained, take my word for it (if you are so inclined).
As for calling Tim, two things:
1. I think that it’s Tim’s responsibility to call me (and has been in touch with Bill and Carl).
2. Tim is aware of what is going on.
Generally, I do not think that I should be defending my character. Same as I am not attempting to besmirch Tim’s. I say that this is not a way to deal with customers and I dare anyone to prove otherwise. Once again, I am sorry if I upset you or any other rennlisters.
05-25-2008, 01:52 AM
#30
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No problems other than those pesky ones that can be expected by boosting a 200,000 mile car.
Whenever I've had a problem, and posted on here, Tim would call me up personally to help out.
Carl has also always been very helpful and kit was received when promised.
No problem on my end - you may have just had a convergence of unfortunate circumstances.
Whenever I've had a problem, and posted on here, Tim would call me up personally to help out.
Carl has also always been very helpful and kit was received when promised.
No problem on my end - you may have just had a convergence of unfortunate circumstances.