rjm65

It doesn't matter where FOB point was, even when it's FOB seller's location, title of goods reverts back to seller when seller is notified of damages during transit. The seller is currently the owner of the damaged transmission right now, not Sab.

Big Dave

We've got an honest buyer and honest seller here, so this ought to be moot but I'll say it anyway just to edify the crowd.

Title is NOT the same thing as risk of loss. It's possible for title to pass before or after the risk of loss does. FOB (an "Incoterm") is typically used by merchants, not individual consumers as both parties here are. The price here included shipping, so arguably the seller was responsible for shipment. Loss that occurs during shipment falls on the seller. Title passed (in my opinion) when payment was made, and the buyer is entitled to a full refund when the goods are lost, damaged or stolen in transit. The carrier (UPS) is liable to the shipper (the seller). The seller must refund the amount to the buyer and pursue the carrier for compensation.

There's your "official" in-house legal counsel analysis, with the disclaimer that I haven't seen anything in writing relating to the specific transaction.

AO

So, now that you have posted your legal opinion, do you get to bill the entire R'list population?

Lizard928

I figure I should give you all an update here.

I have talked with UPS, and to be perfectly honest I DOUBT I will EVER do business with them again!

UPS has stated that the packaging was more than sufficent, and they have approved the claim, so this will all be settled very shortly.
Normally I would simply just paypal the person back the money right away and go after UPS directly. However I have just bought a house and cant do that until everything has been said and done with that. Irregardless of what happens with UPS, Sab will get his money and noone will be at a loss.

I find it very funny though some of the comments about the package not being packaged very well at all.
I couldnt build an entire wooden box due to weight restrictions that I needed to be within, or I would have. There was a ton of padding and I have shipped items a hell of alot less padded than that with real shipping companies and never have an issue. I thought about going to Fedex with it, however it is alot more complex to get it to them. Hell I would have built an aluminum, or steel framed box if I didnt have a weight limit.
But the thing that I find the funniest is that you guys jumped all over me for the packing job without even seeing how it was packed between the tranny and the outter layer. Yet when the thread came up from Adam where his package was shipped back in a plastic tub noone said ANYTHING about a horrible packaging job. It was pretty clear that there was not much surrounding the block, and those plastic tubs break EXTREMELY easily, so why ANYONE would ship something in one of them is beyond me.

VehiGAZ

Forum posters will be forum posters...

Thanks for the update! So have you actually seen the damage to the tranny yet?

Jim bailey - 928 International

When UPS many years ago increased their weight limit to 150 lbs a few days later we shipped a 5 speed trans that way, they broke it ... they paid but we never used them for shipping a transmission again. Seems their drivers union opposed the weight increase but lost that argument.... We figured that they did kick it off the truck it had a hole in the case.

Lizard928

Not yet, trying to get any info out of UPS is like pulling teeth from a wolverine.

I will forwarn anyone at this point, dont ship via UPS! They are a nightmare of a company.

Jim bailey - 928 International

UPS "insurance" is a profit center and UPS does not buy insurance they self insure so every dollar they pay out is a dollar less PROFIT.

Sab

If that is true that the drivers union deals with the unwanted weight increase by willfully dropping heavy packages off their trucks, that would really suck.

would be nice to send a few worthless heavy parts around and insure them at $10k a pop. That'll get them to shape up after a few hundered k $ expense...

Or get the driver, tie that gearbox to his nuts and then make him drop it again...

Dennis Wilson

Just a couple thoughts. 1) If UPS didn't deny the claim due to packing (a common ruse), you can be assured that Colin did an excellent job of preparing it for shipment. 2) DOT rules specify that claims must be paid to the party that pays for the shipment. i.e. a prepaid shipment like this requires UPS to process the damage claim only from Colin. If Colin had shipped the item freight collect, the claim and any reimbursement would be paid to the receiving party.

Dennis

Earl Gillstrom

One more shipping story: with a good ending.
I use USPS for small items as they are closer than UPS and Fedex. I shipped a part on Dec. 20th. It apparently was never received. I could never get a good answer from the company as to whether they received it or not. I made an insurance claim last week and was told it would have to go to Kansas for processing and would take 8 to 10 weeks. I received a check yesterday. That's one week. The check was for the insurance amount and the shipping cost. Maybe I was just lucky, but will continue to use USPS.

Dennis Wilson

Earl,

That sounds very similar to an LTL freight line I used to use in the ceramic tile business. They damaged or lost about 25% of the shipments but they were great at paying claims. Want to guess which parcel service bought out this freight line? Yep, UPS. Except now their claims service sucks and I no longer use them.

Dennis

Lizard928

I ship EVERYTHING I CAN via USPS/Canada post and have NEVER had an issue.

But they dont take parcels this big.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Ah..."But they dont take parcels this big." Neither should UPS

ew928

Anyone seen UPS delivery truck manned/womanned by crew of more than 1?