Supercharging a 928 illegal in CA?
04-03-2008, 12:56 PM
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Supercharging a 928 illegal in CA?
I was reading this article about the how the pigs in CA give people tickets for engine modification. I never knew that enhancing your engine was illegal in CA.
Is this something thats a state by state law or just some bogus crap the pigs made up to squeeze cash out of people? Anybody in CA that spent a fortune on a super charger for there shark know anything about this?
http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp
I'm assuming Randy will move this to OT cause it 'could' bring into question one of the holy than thou sponsors losing a buck over a simple truth that might cost this place its monthly kickback.
Is this something thats a state by state law or just some bogus crap the pigs made up to squeeze cash out of people? Anybody in CA that spent a fortune on a super charger for there shark know anything about this?
California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue
Police raid Riverside, California parking lot to issue modified car tickets at local car enthusiast gathering.
Using $503,000 in federal and state gas tax revenue to pay for overtime, nine police agencies in Riverside, California sent more than one hundred police officers to surround a gathering of automotive enthusiasts. Owners of imported sport compact cars had gathered at the Canyon Crossing shopping center on Friday night to swap stories, talk about their passion for cars and show off the latest enhancements to their rides. At around 11pm police surprised participants by blocking all exits with fifty police cruisers. Officers then began a warrantless search and interrogation operation of the 150 vehicles that were present.
"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"
Police issued a total of forty-eight tickets for "engine modifications" with police accusing the owners of the parked vehicles of being street racers. Another fifty tickets were issued for paperwork violations, dark window tinting and lack of a front license plate. The most revenue, however, will be generated from the fees imposed on twenty vehicles that were confiscated. Despite labeling the parking lot raid as taking place at a "street racing venue," Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.
Across the state, gas tax funds are regularly used to fund similar crackdowns that generate big revenue. In 2004, the California Highway Patrol issued a total of 101,553 "modified car" citations worth $10.5 million according to CHP data obtained by TheNewspaper.
Other law enforcement agencies participating in Friday night's raid included the California Highway Patrol, Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and police from Baldwin Park, Fontana, Irwindale, Moreno Valley, Ontario and Mount San Jacinto Community College.
Police raid Riverside, California parking lot to issue modified car tickets at local car enthusiast gathering.
Using $503,000 in federal and state gas tax revenue to pay for overtime, nine police agencies in Riverside, California sent more than one hundred police officers to surround a gathering of automotive enthusiasts. Owners of imported sport compact cars had gathered at the Canyon Crossing shopping center on Friday night to swap stories, talk about their passion for cars and show off the latest enhancements to their rides. At around 11pm police surprised participants by blocking all exits with fifty police cruisers. Officers then began a warrantless search and interrogation operation of the 150 vehicles that were present.
"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"
Police issued a total of forty-eight tickets for "engine modifications" with police accusing the owners of the parked vehicles of being street racers. Another fifty tickets were issued for paperwork violations, dark window tinting and lack of a front license plate. The most revenue, however, will be generated from the fees imposed on twenty vehicles that were confiscated. Despite labeling the parking lot raid as taking place at a "street racing venue," Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.
Across the state, gas tax funds are regularly used to fund similar crackdowns that generate big revenue. In 2004, the California Highway Patrol issued a total of 101,553 "modified car" citations worth $10.5 million according to CHP data obtained by TheNewspaper.
Other law enforcement agencies participating in Friday night's raid included the California Highway Patrol, Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and police from Baldwin Park, Fontana, Irwindale, Moreno Valley, Ontario and Mount San Jacinto Community College.
I'm assuming Randy will move this to OT cause it 'could' bring into question one of the holy than thou sponsors losing a buck over a simple truth that might cost this place its monthly kickback.
04-03-2008, 01:15 PM
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In Orange County they have road side dyno's and they pull cars over to test on the spot. They are also using camera's on freeway on ramps that look at the underside of your car. They seem to be serious.
04-03-2008, 01:18 PM
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Dan
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04-03-2008, 01:19 PM
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Unless that supercharger and all of its plumbing has a "CARB" sticker on it with associated documentation and testing, it's not legal in CA.
Which is why my mods are gonna hide deep inside the block where they'll never notice the new pistons, rods, crank, valves, etc
I hope to end up with a bone-stock appearing 928 which runs very clean, but just happens to have 150 more hp than you'd expect.
Which is why my mods are gonna hide deep inside the block where they'll never notice the new pistons, rods, crank, valves, etc
I hope to end up with a bone-stock appearing 928 which runs very clean, but just happens to have 150 more hp than you'd expect.
04-03-2008, 01:21 PM
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Unless that supercharger and all of its plumbing has a "CARB" sticker on it with associated documentation and testing, it's not legal in CA.
Which is why my mods are gonna hide deep inside the block where they'll never notice the new pistons, rods, crank, valves, etc
I hope to end up with a bone-stock appearing 928 which runs very clean, but just happens to have 150 more hp than you'd expect.
Which is why my mods are gonna hide deep inside the block where they'll never notice the new pistons, rods, crank, valves, etc
I hope to end up with a bone-stock appearing 928 which runs very clean, but just happens to have 150 more hp than you'd expect.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
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04-03-2008, 01:23 PM
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The average joe will look upon this and say "the police are right, they do not need that on their car....... I hear it all the time from non-car friends.
Hopefully an organization like SEMA will take this on. They have been successful fighting other BS legislation in the past.
It's an odd feeling that every car I own is illegal in California.
04-03-2008, 01:23 PM
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Of course I am. The only people who ever robbed me my money, liberty, dignity and kidnapped me at gun point and put me in tiny cement cage where CA pigs.
That would be messed up if the pigs are waiting at sharktoberfest so they can rob people at gunpoint of there money, via BS tickets, and give people who live out of state fix it tickets for superchargers.
That would be messed up if the pigs are waiting at sharktoberfest so they can rob people at gunpoint of there money, via BS tickets, and give people who live out of state fix it tickets for superchargers.
04-03-2008, 01:31 PM
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We can debate the merits of CARB certification till the cows come home. The intent is to make sure that modifications to engines don't compromise the current _and_ long term operation of the emissions systems on the car. The process may or may not be reaching that goal.
But the simple fact is that just about replacing almost any parts between the intake and the last cat converter without a CARB sticker on them is illegal in CA. Enforcement varies - if it looks enough like an OEM part and the motor runs clean, you can probably get by. A big honking supercharger is gonna be a little bit hard to explain, as would something like a set of straight cat-less pipes running aft...
But the simple fact is that just about replacing almost any parts between the intake and the last cat converter without a CARB sticker on them is illegal in CA. Enforcement varies - if it looks enough like an OEM part and the motor runs clean, you can probably get by. A big honking supercharger is gonna be a little bit hard to explain, as would something like a set of straight cat-less pipes running aft...
04-03-2008, 01:31 PM
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The challenge will come at smog-check time.
It's unlikely that a clean SC install would arouse suspicion during a stop for traffic violations, unless you happen to be street-racing or reckless or exhibition; For those they have a month of impound to "inspect" your car anyway. You have no reason to open the hood for any traffic offense. When someone asks if it's OK to "look inside" your car, tell them yes then lock the doors. Windows were invented for these situations. No need to open the hood.
The question then comes back to the smog check. My car is already flagged for "test-only" station inspection, undoubtedly to protect me from unscrupulous smog testers who would intentionally fail the car and offer to "fix" it for a separate but exhorbitant fee. It's been tried, FWIW. Anyway, the test-only guy that does the car now is encouraged to pass the car by this owner. I let him know that he should do the 25mph rolling test in second gear, since I have the shift cable so loose it will shift right up to top gear and fail on NOx. He obliges. He asks me if the air pump is still there, if the cats are still there, and whether he needs to check the ignition timing. Yes, yes, and no. He readily admits that he doesn't see these cars, so he asks. Could I get a SC installation past him? Yes, but... It would need to look like a factory install. DR's kit would work, but it would need to be a basic black-and-silver install, with the silver a paint that matches the cam covers. not anything polished. It would be a lot easier if there happened to be a big plastic cover over the whole mess, similar to what the MB and other nice cars come with. It would just need to say something other than MB on it. Then it would actually have to pass the tailpipe test, of course.
It would still be illegal. And for those of us condemned to spend virtually all our seat time stuck in slow-moving LA traffic, it would be a waste. The money would be better spent on an electric conversion.
It's unlikely that a clean SC install would arouse suspicion during a stop for traffic violations, unless you happen to be street-racing or reckless or exhibition; For those they have a month of impound to "inspect" your car anyway. You have no reason to open the hood for any traffic offense. When someone asks if it's OK to "look inside" your car, tell them yes then lock the doors. Windows were invented for these situations. No need to open the hood.
The question then comes back to the smog check. My car is already flagged for "test-only" station inspection, undoubtedly to protect me from unscrupulous smog testers who would intentionally fail the car and offer to "fix" it for a separate but exhorbitant fee. It's been tried, FWIW. Anyway, the test-only guy that does the car now is encouraged to pass the car by this owner. I let him know that he should do the 25mph rolling test in second gear, since I have the shift cable so loose it will shift right up to top gear and fail on NOx. He obliges. He asks me if the air pump is still there, if the cats are still there, and whether he needs to check the ignition timing. Yes, yes, and no. He readily admits that he doesn't see these cars, so he asks. Could I get a SC installation past him? Yes, but... It would need to look like a factory install. DR's kit would work, but it would need to be a basic black-and-silver install, with the silver a paint that matches the cam covers. not anything polished. It would be a lot easier if there happened to be a big plastic cover over the whole mess, similar to what the MB and other nice cars come with. It would just need to say something other than MB on it. Then it would actually have to pass the tailpipe test, of course.
It would still be illegal. And for those of us condemned to spend virtually all our seat time stuck in slow-moving LA traffic, it would be a waste. The money would be better spent on an electric conversion.
04-03-2008, 01:32 PM
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Hacker does your shark pass smog tests? Dunno if you have there where your at. In AZ we have the smog tests and last time I went my stock 928 wouldn't pass because the idiots that work there for $7 bucks an hour couldn't figure out why a 928 gas cap didn't have a seal for there vaccum test and failed me. I dunno if engine mods are illegal here.
It must be scary for those kids with the ricers that got busted at 11 pm at night having a stupid pig with a flashlight determine on the spot whats stock and whats not for every vehicle.
Don't tase my supercharger bro.
It must be scary for those kids with the ricers that got busted at 11 pm at night having a stupid pig with a flashlight determine on the spot whats stock and whats not for every vehicle.
Don't tase my supercharger bro.
04-03-2008, 01:35 PM
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Hacker does your shark pass smog tests? Dunno if you have there where your at. In AZ we have the smog tests and last time I went my stock 928 wouldn't pass because the idiots that work there for $7 bucks an hour couldn't figure out why a 928 gas cap didn't have a seal for there vaccum test and failed me. I dunno if engine mods are illegal here.
Less than half of Wisconsin has smog testing, I do not live in that half & those who do (and have modified cars) own property in my half of the state
You can title and drive almost anything with four wheels in Wisconsin. We have a special "Hobbiest" plate for that.