HoHoHo, to Wisconsin we go....(well my block anyway)
02-12-2008, 09:42 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
HoHoHo, to Wisconsin we go....(well my block anyway)
Dropped off the stroker block with Fed X today, on its way to Carl & Co. at 928 Motorsports.
Took forever to strip down, seems like I never had more than a 20 minute stretch of time to work on it.
Did a stellar job of packing it, only to be told by Fed X that they open any package with a declared value of more than $500 for inspection. Harsh. Hope they buttion it up as tight as I did.
Shipped a piston in a separate box as well. Hope they all make it, and don't get DHL'd err..... lost along the way.
I used aluminum tape to cover the main journals in hopes of protecting the main journal saddles from getting etched. I was hoping to get stainless steel inserts to protect the threads of the main stud holes, but my local supplier didn't have them. Rather than wait more time (its already been forever), I decided to just go for it and boxed it up.
While all that is going on I'll have time to turn my attention back to the heads. I'm going with the tried and true 951 spring /928 32vS lower keeper combo, but still want to measure for seat pressure and spring bind with the DEVEK B1's. (Unless Veninger tells me he's already done it and don't waste the time).
Then, I've got to track down some lash caps, notch me some tappets, and I think I'm good to go.
I'll post pics of the newly nikasil'd block assuming it doesn't get DHL'd...errr lost on the way out or the way back from Wisconsin. It will be nice to be able to start doing some assembly on this project, finally.
Took forever to strip down, seems like I never had more than a 20 minute stretch of time to work on it.
Did a stellar job of packing it, only to be told by Fed X that they open any package with a declared value of more than $500 for inspection. Harsh. Hope they buttion it up as tight as I did.
Shipped a piston in a separate box as well. Hope they all make it, and don't get DHL'd err..... lost along the way.
I used aluminum tape to cover the main journals in hopes of protecting the main journal saddles from getting etched. I was hoping to get stainless steel inserts to protect the threads of the main stud holes, but my local supplier didn't have them. Rather than wait more time (its already been forever), I decided to just go for it and boxed it up.
While all that is going on I'll have time to turn my attention back to the heads. I'm going with the tried and true 951 spring /928 32vS lower keeper combo, but still want to measure for seat pressure and spring bind with the DEVEK B1's. (Unless Veninger tells me he's already done it and don't waste the time).
Then, I've got to track down some lash caps, notch me some tappets, and I think I'm good to go.
I'll post pics of the newly nikasil'd block assuming it doesn't get DHL'd...errr lost on the way out or the way back from Wisconsin. It will be nice to be able to start doing some assembly on this project, finally.
02-12-2008, 10:09 PM
#2
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Sweet
What is the final build? What pistons etc...
What is the final build? What pistons etc...
02-12-2008, 10:38 PM
#3
I didn't think about that Adam. The aluminum is all etched, which would make the main bearing journals a different size. And what about the machining for the case halves and the oil pump area?
Notch tappets?
Where will you get the lash caps?
951 spring? You mean 944S2 spring?
Notch tappets?
Where will you get the lash caps?
951 spring? You mean 944S2 spring?
02-13-2008, 02:37 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
These are Ross pistons. They are 103.8mm. I made them slightly smaller than the 968 pistons to conserve cylinder wall thickness.
Other than that, Oliver rods, 928 Int'l Scat stroker crank, Ported heads with 968 intake valves, DEVEK B1 cams, and Louie's ITB set up. I've got Mike Simard's stud girdle and will probably get the J-I scraper set up if they are still available.
I'm sticking with the stock LH/EZK with super MAF'd snorkel going to the front of the car, very similiar to Louie's set up with the enclosed plenum box containing air horns. I'm not looking to shed as much torque as Louie did, so my stacks will be longer.
Other than that, Oliver rods, 928 Int'l Scat stroker crank, Ported heads with 968 intake valves, DEVEK B1 cams, and Louie's ITB set up. I've got Mike Simard's stud girdle and will probably get the J-I scraper set up if they are still available.
I'm sticking with the stock LH/EZK with super MAF'd snorkel going to the front of the car, very similiar to Louie's set up with the enclosed plenum box containing air horns. I'm not looking to shed as much torque as Louie did, so my stacks will be longer.
02-13-2008, 03:14 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I don't want to dissuade anyone from the process, just be prepared for what you may get in return.
When we uncrated the RMT block fresh from Wisconsin, I almost fell over. The first thing I noticed was the etched deck surfaces, and was thinking how in the hell am I going to get cometics to seal against THAT?
We pulled the block out and the all the machine surfaces on the bottom, the crank girdle rails, bearing saddles, were all etched. It looked like they applied some stop off lacquer, as I could see traces of what looked like machinest's dye, but it burned off in the etching and didn't provide any protection. Next I turned my attention to the oil pump cavity, again the machined I.D. had been totally etched. When I went to check the threaded holes, they were all a little loose. I've seen pics of others blocks, and none of them seemed to have been barbequed to the extent that this particular block was. I don't know if it sat in the solution longer than typical, or if this particular block reacted more then typical to the acid, but it wasn't pretty.
I spent many hours (as did the owner) cleaning the machined surfaces. I used a scotchbrite pad which took most of the slough off, and then used a wide flat piece of iron with 800 grit wet/dry paper with 30 wt dino oil and very gently worked the flat machine surfaces. The bearing saddles got a similar treatment but I used the old bearing shells as the "sanding block", and again, very gently, polished the surfaces. When I was done everything was still in spec.
This motor has been run now under some pretty severe test conditions, and has held together fine. I'm fully confident that the etching does not affect the integrity of the block, and of course, it seems to be one of the few that is working with the Cometic gaskets.
The oil pump cavity was a pain, but once cleaned out everything fit fine. On first assembly the oil pump shaft would not turn because the pump gears were contacting the etched surface of the block contained inside the cavity. It's like the etching leaves this residue everywhere actually decreasing tolerances. Once cleaned off the net difference is pretty nominal. I oil sanded the interior surfaces of the cavity, and the pump spun freely.
I haven't performed this operation on a motor yet, but my understanding is that notching the oil intake holes is required when using a higher lift cam. Since the tappets are hydraulic, there is some play in there, which is why the S4 and GT's can use the same tappet even though the GT has more lift. Rumour has it that there is enough hydraulic adjustment in them to accomodate an additional half mm increase in lift over a GT cam without modification. The B1's however are 2mm above a stock S4, 1mm above a stock GT, which takes them out of the safety zone, by putting the oil fill hole .5mm above the factory range. By putting a 1mm vertical notch in the lifter just below the oil hole, even though the hole itself will be closed off by the lifter bore, the notch will still be in the lifter oil feed journal, and supply the necessary oil pressure up into the oil fill hole.
I've got lash cap info on my other computer, I'll post it when I get to my office tomorrow.
On the springs, yes, S2's, my mistake. They are the same as what Mark Anderson runs in his motor.
When we uncrated the RMT block fresh from Wisconsin, I almost fell over. The first thing I noticed was the etched deck surfaces, and was thinking how in the hell am I going to get cometics to seal against THAT?
We pulled the block out and the all the machine surfaces on the bottom, the crank girdle rails, bearing saddles, were all etched. It looked like they applied some stop off lacquer, as I could see traces of what looked like machinest's dye, but it burned off in the etching and didn't provide any protection. Next I turned my attention to the oil pump cavity, again the machined I.D. had been totally etched. When I went to check the threaded holes, they were all a little loose. I've seen pics of others blocks, and none of them seemed to have been barbequed to the extent that this particular block was. I don't know if it sat in the solution longer than typical, or if this particular block reacted more then typical to the acid, but it wasn't pretty.
I spent many hours (as did the owner) cleaning the machined surfaces. I used a scotchbrite pad which took most of the slough off, and then used a wide flat piece of iron with 800 grit wet/dry paper with 30 wt dino oil and very gently worked the flat machine surfaces. The bearing saddles got a similar treatment but I used the old bearing shells as the "sanding block", and again, very gently, polished the surfaces. When I was done everything was still in spec.
This motor has been run now under some pretty severe test conditions, and has held together fine. I'm fully confident that the etching does not affect the integrity of the block, and of course, it seems to be one of the few that is working with the Cometic gaskets.
The oil pump cavity was a pain, but once cleaned out everything fit fine. On first assembly the oil pump shaft would not turn because the pump gears were contacting the etched surface of the block contained inside the cavity. It's like the etching leaves this residue everywhere actually decreasing tolerances. Once cleaned off the net difference is pretty nominal. I oil sanded the interior surfaces of the cavity, and the pump spun freely.
I haven't performed this operation on a motor yet, but my understanding is that notching the oil intake holes is required when using a higher lift cam. Since the tappets are hydraulic, there is some play in there, which is why the S4 and GT's can use the same tappet even though the GT has more lift. Rumour has it that there is enough hydraulic adjustment in them to accomodate an additional half mm increase in lift over a GT cam without modification. The B1's however are 2mm above a stock S4, 1mm above a stock GT, which takes them out of the safety zone, by putting the oil fill hole .5mm above the factory range. By putting a 1mm vertical notch in the lifter just below the oil hole, even though the hole itself will be closed off by the lifter bore, the notch will still be in the lifter oil feed journal, and supply the necessary oil pressure up into the oil fill hole.
I've got lash cap info on my other computer, I'll post it when I get to my office tomorrow.
On the springs, yes, S2's, my mistake. They are the same as what Mark Anderson runs in his motor.
I didn't think about that Adam. The aluminum is all etched, which would make the main bearing journals a different size. And what about the machining for the case halves and the oil pump area?
Notch tappets?
Where will you get the lash caps?
951 spring? You mean 944S2 spring?
Notch tappets?
Where will you get the lash caps?
951 spring? You mean 944S2 spring?
02-13-2008, 11:15 AM
#6
Thanks Adam.
02-13-2008, 01:17 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
now you got me thinking. when they nicasil the block, how do they keep the bearing holders from growing with the thickness of the coating? not to mention all the other surfaces. or, do they cover all this kind of stuff, and only apply the coating to the cylinder areas?
(i just like the idea of the alusil bores and 968 pistons!)
mk
(i just like the idea of the alusil bores and 968 pistons!)
mk
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02-13-2008, 01:58 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
now you got me thinking. when they nicasil the block, how do they keep the bearing holders from growing with the thickness of the coating? not to mention all the other surfaces. or, do they cover all this kind of stuff, and only apply the coating to the cylinder areas?
(i just like the idea of the alusil bores and 968 pistons!)
mk
(i just like the idea of the alusil bores and 968 pistons!)
mk
Only the cylinders get coated.
I like the idea of alusil bores and 968 pistons too, but no 968 pistons to be had.
Brendan,
The lash cap vendor is www.jrponline.com
They are currently doing inventory and are offline until Friday, they said they would get me a quote at that time. The contact's name is Derek. The manufacturer is Ferrea Racing Components.
02-13-2008, 03:52 PM
#9
Thanks Adam. So your lash caps will add 2mm total?
02-13-2008, 03:59 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That's correct. John V. provided me with dimensions of 7mm x 2mm. I believe Dennis Wilson found this provider when looking for lash caps for his Threshie built stroker.
02-13-2008, 04:21 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
02-13-2008, 05:01 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
02-13-2008, 05:39 PM
#14
Its like a hat on the top of the valve.
