Left tie rod into rack -- lefty loosie?
02-25-2008, 02:51 PM
#31
Under the Lift
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Practically speaking, toe in the front is self-centering. Ideally you want equal length tie rods, so, yes, use the centering bolt. However, depending on rack mounting to the universal joint, you may end up "off a tooth." I.e., the steering wheel may end up not centered in reference to the rack center bolt and unable to be centered by pulling the steering wheel since the splines on the steering wheel are 1/2 the count of the splines down on the universal joint at the rack. If so, I pull the rack off the universal joint and get it right, but alignment shops won't, but will just slightly offset the tierods so the steering wheel is centered. Not ideal, but it happens and may have no noticeable effect. If the number of splines on the steering wheel were the same as down at the universal joint, this would not be an issue.
Toe in the rear is a different matter and has to be referenced to a centerline or a set of parallel strings carefully centered to the wheel centers, and it must be accurate per side. If rear total toe is correct in the rear but not even on both sides, the car will pull.
Toe in the rear is a different matter and has to be referenced to a centerline or a set of parallel strings carefully centered to the wheel centers, and it must be accurate per side. If rear total toe is correct in the rear but not even on both sides, the car will pull.
02-25-2008, 04:37 PM
#32
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Thanks. That's kind of what i thought. so, does the quarter turn longer tie rod do something different on the steering side of equation? (like turn better or change geometry one direction vs the next?)
I just checked it again, and its about 0 toe right now, with possibly 1/16" toe in. shading on the toe in side now vs 1/8" toe'ed out before. i wonder if that might make a difference on the tire wear, or should i mess with the camber?
2 degrees seems just a little too much. but that aweful picture of the guy that had some serious toe out, was wearing the tire right were mine are going bad now. can 1/8" toe out to 0 make that kind of wear difference or should i back out the camber to 1.5 like it used to be!!??
mmk
I just checked it again, and its about 0 toe right now, with possibly 1/16" toe in. shading on the toe in side now vs 1/8" toe'ed out before. i wonder if that might make a difference on the tire wear, or should i mess with the camber?
2 degrees seems just a little too much. but that aweful picture of the guy that had some serious toe out, was wearing the tire right were mine are going bad now. can 1/8" toe out to 0 make that kind of wear difference or should i back out the camber to 1.5 like it used to be!!??
mmk
Practically speaking, toe in the front is self-centering. Ideally you want equal length tie rods, so, yes, use the centering bolt. However, depending on rack mounting to the universal joint, you may end up "off a tooth." I.e., the steering wheel may end up not centered in reference to the rack center bolt and unable to be centered by pulling the steering wheel since the splines on the steering wheel are 1/2 the count of the splines down on the universal joint at the rack. If so, I pull the rack off the universal joint and get it right, but alignment shops won't, but will just slightly offset the tierods so the steering wheel is centered. Not ideal, but it happens and may have no noticeable effect. If the number of splines on the steering wheel were the same as down at the universal joint, this would not be an issue.
Toe in the rear is a different matter and has to be referenced to a centerline or a set of parallel strings carefully centered to the wheel centers, and it must be accurate per side. If rear total toe is correct in the rear but not even on both sides, the car will pull.
Toe in the rear is a different matter and has to be referenced to a centerline or a set of parallel strings carefully centered to the wheel centers, and it must be accurate per side. If rear total toe is correct in the rear but not even on both sides, the car will pull.
02-25-2008, 07:00 PM
#33
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Mark--
I was suggesting that toe changes are contributory from both sides, and was pointing out what the effect will be on total toe considering the contributions. With a "bump steer kit" that raises the outer end of the tie rod, a compression motion will make a larger change in lateral position for the arm than it will for the tie rod, so any height change compressed will cause that side to toe out compared to a car without the kit. The extending side (inside of the corner) will toe in more than a car without the kit. Question of course is whether you need more toe-out or less when cornering like this. With less offset on the front wheels (wider track...), it's likely you want a little more toe-out when turning. Remember that "perfect" steering geometry has the axis through each front wheel intersecting the axis through the rear wheels at the same point. Anything else means scrub. Maintaining that through the full range of suspension travel is impossible, but obviously the closer you get to "perfect" when cornering, the more grip you can get from your tires.
I was suggesting that toe changes are contributory from both sides, and was pointing out what the effect will be on total toe considering the contributions. With a "bump steer kit" that raises the outer end of the tie rod, a compression motion will make a larger change in lateral position for the arm than it will for the tie rod, so any height change compressed will cause that side to toe out compared to a car without the kit. The extending side (inside of the corner) will toe in more than a car without the kit. Question of course is whether you need more toe-out or less when cornering like this. With less offset on the front wheels (wider track...), it's likely you want a little more toe-out when turning. Remember that "perfect" steering geometry has the axis through each front wheel intersecting the axis through the rear wheels at the same point. Anything else means scrub. Maintaining that through the full range of suspension travel is impossible, but obviously the closer you get to "perfect" when cornering, the more grip you can get from your tires.
