Bill Ball

Yep.

87 = 4
A1 = 5
A2 = 2

dr bob

As much as I like the idea of using a jumper for testing, readers should be acutely aware that it is only for testing. Leaving the jumper in place, instead of using the relay, eliminates the protection available to avoid burning the car down. There are a few horror stories posted on Rennlist, and I'd bet that Jim and Mark could give you a few stats about cars that come in with fire damage from catalyst overheating.

So, please remember that the jumper is temporary, used only for diagnosis, and needs to be removed immediately on conclusion of the testing.

Daymon66

thanks for the disclaimer dr bob...

i got a miilion things to check now, everything from re-setting the alarm, fuel and vac.lines, plug and coil wires, MAF, distributor caps, and relays..

i'll let y'all know what i find this evening.

i still think it is something simple and she can smell my fear of her components.
she's testing me and my resources to see if i deserve her...

i just hope driving the '69 SS Camaro in to work this morning didn't **** her off too bad..

Warren928

From alot of experience, I doubt it's anything major, and it sounds like something computer or ignition related. A plug and play item. Get in there soldier and find that nasty critter! Good luck.

BTW, carl is a good egg, and he takes care of his cars, I know he goes the extra mile on things. I guess that is just bad luck, but look on the bright side, you bought from somebody who spends $$$ on their shark alot.

Daymon66

got home started car and it was the same. see picks below.

* pulled plugs, all looked the same... old and dirty???
* checked all plug wires and coil wires... all good and tight and flexible
* pulled for a better view the clear box in pass. foot well... NO LED's lit
* removed air intakes and dis-connected the MAF... started car and it ran but dies and it won't idle. so i guess it runs worse without the MAF

we have had some typical very humid weather down here in southeast texas and i wonder if that has fouled/hurt the MAF in some way?

i had a volvo back in the 80's that ran similar when the MAF went bad.

car seems to idle okay rough but okay. when i give it gas slowly it will idle up as expected but rough, and when it goose it it dies down then will come up to speed.
i feel kinda bad for asking for help and i promise as i learn i'll return the favors and if any of you guys are ever down my way and need anything i'm here to help.

Mike Frye

Did you try pulling one plug wire at a time while it was running to see if any aren't firing?

Bill51sdr

I wouldn't advise this with these cars as it's a great way to get knocked on your a$$ in a very inelegant way.

The plugs look like they've been burning a bit rich. See if someone in your area will do a MAF swap with you so you can confirm/rule it out.

dr bob

+1 on Bill's recommendation. They look really dark, at least compared to the way my '89 treats plugs.


Daymon: Do you have a MitiVac, by chance? If so, plug it into the two fuwl dampers and the fuel pressure regulator and make sure they hold vacuum. One damper is on the front of the motor. The regulator and the other damper are in the back under the air filter housing. A leak in a diaphragm will cause rich running.

In an interesting coincidence, a local lister was suffering from similar symptoms and found out after a lot of work that he had a crack in one distributor rotor. I'm sure you got a pile of service records with the car. Or.... Pull the two distributor caps and inspect both the rotors and the caps themselves. As Bill mentioned, you really don't want to do spark testing the way you might with the Camaro. It might toss you on the ground, might kill you, and definitely risks damage to the coil. Still, you can use your inductive timing light to test for spark energy in each wire.


Since you will likely decide to put new plugs in, just a reminder that the best plugs are likely the Bosch copper plugs that came in it from the factory. IIRC these are WR7DC. Don't waste money on platinum or multi-electrode versions.

Daymon66

TOO LATE.. I PULLED EACH PLUG WIRE WHILE RUNNING UNTIL I FOUND THIS..

took earlier advice and started car and pulled one plug at a time to see if that made a difference.. started on driver side and all made a little difference but when i got to the back plug i pulled the boot out and saw a blue arc between the boot end and the head. i turned off car and pulled end boot off and found this. see picture. could this be A problem????

ALSO NOTICED SEVERAL SMALL BLUE ARCS BETWEEN THE PLUG WIRES ON DRIVER SIDE AS WELL AS BETWEEN PLUG WIRES AND ENGINE. I DID NOT SEE THESE LAST NIGHT...

THESE PLUG WIRES ARE ****?????

ALL WIRES ON THE DRIVER SIDE ARE ARCING BETWEEN EACH OTHER AND THE BLOCK.

GUESS I NEED TO FIX THIS FIRST???

Bill51sdr

Ok, but how did you not find that connector like that when you pulled the plugs? But yes if you are seeing arcing you need plug wires.

Daymon66

Bill, because there is a rubber boot around this end and you cannot see it. had i not seen the arc coming around that rubber boot i would not have noticed.. you can see the rubber boot i pulled off of it laying on the intake behind the plug conn. i am holding..

Bill51sdr

The rubber boot probably kept the connector from arcing unless there are other cracks in it further up. Your wires arcing is your problem I'm betting.

Daymon66

looking for new plug wires now..

will go ahead and check dist. and ect. now also..

AO

Well there's yer problem right there...

Daymon66

Andrew i hope so brother. i'm not certain that these arc'n plug wires can cause this. but obviously i have no clue about these cars. right now it is the ONLY problem i have managed to isolate so i'll fix, check and hopefully move on...

holy bat **** plug wires are cheap......