Raped at the Porsche dealership?
01-26-2008, 11:59 PM
#46
Team Owner
For all of you rusty washer owners heres the trick,
It will take about 4 hours of your time to correct.
You need to replace the old washer fill tube and get a new washer junction block, the updated part if possible.(this part fits under the right rear side of the hood and holds all of the washer lines that go to the squirters, the new part has a rectangle cut out of it so the harness can pass through)
if you do this job. Jack up the car remove the right front tire and wheel well housing cover/ Liner.
find the washer resivour and the thick black connecting hose that goes to the fill tube, remove your fill tube and throw it away.
Remove the washer tank and carfully pull the lines from the sides of the tank noting the positions for reinstall ( your tank should look opaque or slightly orange, this indicates rust forming in your tank.
The rust is coming from the fill tube, forming ring and the tank forming ring your job is to clean the tank and remove both of these rings .
The new fill tube is easy, heat the end in boiling water and with a pair of needle nose pliers gently pull the metal ring out and THROW IT AWAY.
The tank needs to be drained so try using a lighter on the hose connections that you need to remove they come apart rather easily. OR try sliding the pumps out and leave them attached to the hoses, the pumps should be cleaned since you have them out.
Slide the tank out after removing the stainless steel strap, and wetting the floor, find some small stones and get a few OZ of simple green plug as many of the holes in the tank that you can.
Your choice either by soaking the fill inlet in boiling water or by wrapping a rag around the end of the fill tube inlet, squeeze the inlet a few times with some channel locks just enogh to start the rusty metal collar a crumbling, this will be the hardest part to get out as it will be almost bonded to the plastic work it out till all of the metal is gone.
Fill the simple green into the tank with the stiones and add about 1/2 gallon of warm water and shake the heck out of the tank, agitate for a few mins or untill your shoes are wet and water is running down your arms, and the water is taking on an orange sludge look, rinse out all of the this mess a few times .
Clean out the pumps, put some Dow Corning 111 sealant onto the rubber sealing grommets for the pumps, and clean the pump elex connections , add some dielex grease to these connections so they wont corrode. Refit the tank and rout the lines, connect the fill tube to the thick black connector tube and dont over tighten the clamps, if you do the connection may leak,( but it will only leak till it reaches the top of the tank fill inlet, so your tank will stay full till you use it) .
Go to the hood and remove the squrter connection block and fit the new parts,( cut the old cap to get the wires out ) dont cut any wires.
Add about 2 qts of hot water and run the washer motors, till they rinse clear, check for leaks , then put the liner back in (now is a good time to rinse out the dirt on the top of the liner). Fill with your favorite washer fluid.
For clogged washer nozzles use a pin and poke it in the nozzle then with compressed air give a shot to the outside of the squirter this will push the dirt back from the inside of the nozzle and it should come out in the stream, also check the headlight squirters for corrct aim. Thats how i have done this job and its a pain but once its done you wont ever have rusty water on you hood again. Stan
It will take about 4 hours of your time to correct.
You need to replace the old washer fill tube and get a new washer junction block, the updated part if possible.(this part fits under the right rear side of the hood and holds all of the washer lines that go to the squirters, the new part has a rectangle cut out of it so the harness can pass through)
if you do this job. Jack up the car remove the right front tire and wheel well housing cover/ Liner.
find the washer resivour and the thick black connecting hose that goes to the fill tube, remove your fill tube and throw it away.
Remove the washer tank and carfully pull the lines from the sides of the tank noting the positions for reinstall ( your tank should look opaque or slightly orange, this indicates rust forming in your tank.
The rust is coming from the fill tube, forming ring and the tank forming ring your job is to clean the tank and remove both of these rings .
The new fill tube is easy, heat the end in boiling water and with a pair of needle nose pliers gently pull the metal ring out and THROW IT AWAY.
The tank needs to be drained so try using a lighter on the hose connections that you need to remove they come apart rather easily. OR try sliding the pumps out and leave them attached to the hoses, the pumps should be cleaned since you have them out.
Slide the tank out after removing the stainless steel strap, and wetting the floor, find some small stones and get a few OZ of simple green plug as many of the holes in the tank that you can.
Your choice either by soaking the fill inlet in boiling water or by wrapping a rag around the end of the fill tube inlet, squeeze the inlet a few times with some channel locks just enogh to start the rusty metal collar a crumbling, this will be the hardest part to get out as it will be almost bonded to the plastic work it out till all of the metal is gone.
Fill the simple green into the tank with the stiones and add about 1/2 gallon of warm water and shake the heck out of the tank, agitate for a few mins or untill your shoes are wet and water is running down your arms, and the water is taking on an orange sludge look, rinse out all of the this mess a few times .
Clean out the pumps, put some Dow Corning 111 sealant onto the rubber sealing grommets for the pumps, and clean the pump elex connections , add some dielex grease to these connections so they wont corrode. Refit the tank and rout the lines, connect the fill tube to the thick black connector tube and dont over tighten the clamps, if you do the connection may leak,( but it will only leak till it reaches the top of the tank fill inlet, so your tank will stay full till you use it) .
Go to the hood and remove the squrter connection block and fit the new parts,( cut the old cap to get the wires out ) dont cut any wires.
Add about 2 qts of hot water and run the washer motors, till they rinse clear, check for leaks , then put the liner back in (now is a good time to rinse out the dirt on the top of the liner). Fill with your favorite washer fluid.
For clogged washer nozzles use a pin and poke it in the nozzle then with compressed air give a shot to the outside of the squirter this will push the dirt back from the inside of the nozzle and it should come out in the stream, also check the headlight squirters for corrct aim. Thats how i have done this job and its a pain but once its done you wont ever have rusty water on you hood again. Stan
01-27-2008, 01:19 AM
#47
Under the Lift
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Stan - thanks for that! I'll add it to my todo list. I still don't understand why I only see rusty water out of the headlight washers.
01-27-2008, 01:28 AM
#48
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ISANTA!! For that much money, I'd tell them to keep it, either way you lose $7,000, and then put that $7,000 down on another car.
I have to edit my response, looking at your car, it is quite nice, and probably worth much more than 7k, can you scan the work order/rcpt and let us see what they charged you for?
Let this serve a warning to people not to give a dealer or shop carte blanche to fix a host of issues before getting a detailed estimate. I met a guy here in LA, bought a shark from Hawaii that was in storage, and needed a lot of refreshing. He sent it to that company in Northern Cal that starts with a D, along with a 10,000 check. If I recall correctly, 6-8 weeks later, car wasn't done, but 10k was....
I have to edit my response, looking at your car, it is quite nice, and probably worth much more than 7k, can you scan the work order/rcpt and let us see what they charged you for?
Let this serve a warning to people not to give a dealer or shop carte blanche to fix a host of issues before getting a detailed estimate. I met a guy here in LA, bought a shark from Hawaii that was in storage, and needed a lot of refreshing. He sent it to that company in Northern Cal that starts with a D, along with a 10,000 check. If I recall correctly, 6-8 weeks later, car wasn't done, but 10k was....
Last edited by scott863; 01-27-2008 at 02:09 AM.
01-27-2008, 01:42 AM
#49
The Lady's Man
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As nice as his car is that doesn't make any sense! If his car was a typical higher mileage car in okay condition then maybe but look at it!!
01-27-2008, 08:01 AM
#51
Drifting
Just to confirm cost of my TB/water pump replacement in the UK.
It was done by the guy who is the only 928 specialist in the country. He is famous for - incredibly - being the best at his job and also amongst the most reasonable for labour charges.
When I posted before I hadn't added the UK equivalent of sales tax, so I just read off the $800 for replacing the belt and pump from the invoice (which included labour).
So the final cost was UKP 484. At exchange rate of $2 to £1 that's $968.
This guy is a one-off though. A lot of us in the UK would struggle to run 928s without him. Some of his customers drive hundreds of miles to take their cars to him and think it well worth the effort and time involved, not to mention cheaper in the long run.
It was done by the guy who is the only 928 specialist in the country. He is famous for - incredibly - being the best at his job and also amongst the most reasonable for labour charges.
When I posted before I hadn't added the UK equivalent of sales tax, so I just read off the $800 for replacing the belt and pump from the invoice (which included labour).
So the final cost was UKP 484. At exchange rate of $2 to £1 that's $968.
This guy is a one-off though. A lot of us in the UK would struggle to run 928s without him. Some of his customers drive hundreds of miles to take their cars to him and think it well worth the effort and time involved, not to mention cheaper in the long run.
01-27-2008, 09:11 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
The 928 guys on this board are very hands on. The AC thing, very common, TB and h20 jobs, very common, that oil leak, again very common. the washer thing.. how much should it actuallu cost... What i can not believe is one of our own jabbing at us.
01-27-2008, 09:17 AM
#55
Nordschleife Master
Jabbing you? Because I look at the facts? I can't assume he got screwed until I see all the parts that were replaced!! It's quick to make judgements without supporting facts..
01-27-2008, 09:30 AM
#56
I know the difference between throwing good money out the window, and money well spent.
Saving 1000.00 and then having to pay to have a job redone is by far the most painful way to do things. After four 928s, I feel like I know what I feel comfortable about doing, and who to go to for the rest.
Better to start at the top than at the bottom
Saving 1000.00 and then having to pay to have a job redone is by far the most painful way to do things. After four 928s, I feel like I know what I feel comfortable about doing, and who to go to for the rest.
Better to start at the top than at the bottom
01-27-2008, 09:40 AM
#57
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Ouch!
Did anyone else wince when they read 'control head and heat flap'? I'm thinking it should have been the heater valve, which is pretty inexpensive.
Macfly, I think you paid the going rate, but I do think you got screwed. I know you're out of country, but this list can get you through most of that stuff. You could have spent less than half that and gotten to spend some quality time with your car at the same time.
Did anyone else wince when they read 'control head and heat flap'? I'm thinking it should have been the heater valve, which is pretty inexpensive.
Macfly, I think you paid the going rate, but I do think you got screwed. I know you're out of country, but this list can get you through most of that stuff. You could have spent less than half that and gotten to spend some quality time with your car at the same time.
01-27-2008, 09:43 AM
#58
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Do you have a specification for the parts and labor? I'm sure they replaced more then you mentioned in your post. The thing is with Porsche that when a part is broken they tend to replace parts of the system, not just the broken part. The parts you mention are expensive and they do need some time to do the work. So I would say the price comes pretty close, but is does seem a little on the high side. But then again, you know they did aquality job, something you don't know with independent shops when you don't know them. And: take off 22% for VAT. Would be interesting to see what they quote you for the obligatory TB tension check after 1500 miles. For reference: my Porsche shop does that for appr. EUR 300 incl. VAT.
01-27-2008, 09:50 AM
#59
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Dude,
If you anyone is going to spend $26000 on an 87 s4, I suggest the following as an alternate:
1. 85 928s 5sp LSD $2000 silver
2. 85 s 5sp LSD burgundy $5000 + $5000 in repairs, and then another $2500 after fudging the valves AGAIN! This was before I found the true wrench inside....
3.) 88 944 turbo $4500
4.) 77-84 911 around $8000 in rough shape
$26500 got us 4 cars for the price of one....This is how I look at big tickets for cars that also have small tickets for the same exact hardware.... If you can wrench at all, it's better to go cheap, get the taste, see if you like the taste, and then build it your way!
If you anyone is going to spend $26000 on an 87 s4, I suggest the following as an alternate:
1. 85 928s 5sp LSD $2000 silver
2. 85 s 5sp LSD burgundy $5000 + $5000 in repairs, and then another $2500 after fudging the valves AGAIN! This was before I found the true wrench inside....
3.) 88 944 turbo $4500
4.) 77-84 911 around $8000 in rough shape
$26500 got us 4 cars for the price of one....This is how I look at big tickets for cars that also have small tickets for the same exact hardware.... If you can wrench at all, it's better to go cheap, get the taste, see if you like the taste, and then build it your way!
