Black Sea RD

Mark,

Pull the seat and steering wheel, disconnect the clutch pedal from the master cylinder rod and pull it off and let it hang there, pull off the clip and pull the rod out, pull out the pedals and then replace everything that needs it. It's not that big of a deal and with all the work you've done on 928s, this should be easy.

Hate to think you losing a race or worse due to broken pedals. And your car deserves this!

Constantine
P.S. And there is nothing wrong with being **** when it comes to mechanics. Your BMW freind is right on this one.

Lizard928

I have had this out a few times, and have never pulled the seat, or the steering wheel, just moved the seat back (not an option in kiborts car probably) and raised the pod, I also have never had an issue putting the pin back in either.

though the sheet metal does look alitte abused I would recommend taking the pin back out, and taking a picture of the end of the pin, or the whole thing out of the car. and before you put it back in take a picture of both sides of the hole that the pin goes through.

mark kibort

Ok, you guys are right. I just get uncomfortable working in tight spaces. I hate these kind of jobs. Id rather build an engine than do this!

Anyway, i was lining up the flat of that shaft up to that "D" hole and started using leverage, small hammer, etc, to push it through, and then the expected happened, the end broke off. I was so pissed. I just started pulling springs, circlips, etc and the two pedals just fell down. the only thing that worries me is the clutch spring that when it came off the clutch pedal. it really expanded. how in the heck does that thing go back on. maybe you depress the pedal and find an equalibrium point? It kind of fell off the attachement point on the front of the spring (toward the seat,anchored under the pod).

anway, here is the broken shaft. is that part that came off, normally one piece on the shaft, or is a separate part attached to the shaft via a press fit, or flange?

thanks!

Ill get a new shaft on order and probably a lot of those little plastic bushings.
there also is no roller bearings on the clutch pedal, just a long plastic tube bushing. Is that normal? maybe only the S4s had the needle bearings?
after all, this was a 86 auto chassis originally.

mk

look at the oval hole in the piece that broke off the shaft. is that normal?
the "D" shaped piece fits into the chassis part perfectly. take a look at the plastic tube bushing instead of the needle bearings that are supposed to be in there.

Bill Ball

OK, it was ready to fall apart. If you look at Brendan's pics you will see how symmetric and solid the end should be - not ovaled out like yours.

The PET shows two needle bearings for the S4 clutch.

Again, the WSM describes how to do the clutch spring.

Mike Simard

There are supposed to be needle rollers in the clutch pedal and plastic sleeve bearings in the brake pedal. Who knows what happened to yours. The shaft wasn't supposed to do the turning and that's what ate the bushing on the end of it. How does the hole in the right side of the body bracket look?

I recommend not putting it back together unless everything is cleaned and understood to be correct. You'll probably want to buy a used pedal or two in addition to the shaft but get whatever it takes or this will be a problem again.

If you remove the seat and lay a comfy blanky on the floor, work lying on your back, you'll find this the most pleasant and easy job on the car!

Side note: Does anyone have a new one of those shafts and can verify if the head on it spins freely? The one I have in front of me does, as nicely as a roller bearing infact. The question is whether that's intended. Could these shafts be a problem if that head loosens? Is this a possible problem to be checked as a maintenance item on 928s?

Black Sea RD

Mark,

I can't really add anything else since Bill and Mike are giving you great advice. The only thing I will say is that you obviously prevented a possible disaster, or at least a ruined race weekend.

I always tried to not have to work on the track car at the track, under time constraints and with not the right tools/parts.

Constantine

mark kibort

Thanks guys! very helpful . On one hand i wish i didnt even start this process, but on the other, now that its apart, you can see that that shaft head is oval'ed out and probably the reason the pedals had some slop. anyway, its all out now and will be put together with new parts. one of the problems was that the plastic bushings on the clutch were shreaded and were perventing the shaft from going through so i could put the clip on it. all the pounding and lever'ing, caused it to fail. probably it was due to come apart. I dont know if that would have been catastrophic, but it certainly wouldnt be good to have happen at the track.

Again, thanks Bill, Mike too for the information. You guys know too much about these cars, its scary!

mk

IcemanG17

MK
Just think now you will save .000001 second per shift change......

svp928

I am also a survivor of the auto-to manual swap, and as I recall, th shaft is a slip fit in everything, but really
is NOT supposed to turn- the roller bearings in the clutch pedal are supposed to allow the pedal to rotate on the shaft and not turn it- if the shaft turns, you get worn out end bushings like Mark's. Looks like whoever put his assembly together put a plastic sleeve in the clutch pedal that was too tight on the shaft, causing the shaft to rotate and eat the end bushing...??

Bill Ball

CONJECTURE: All indications are that the shaft is not supposed to turn at all. If so, then you would expect the end piece to be fixed on the shaft. The PET shows this as a single part. However, it may still be free to spin on the shaft for all I know. Somebody with a fresh one handy will need to tell us.

Lizard928

the pin should be as one piece and not be able to spin in itself

mark kibort

this all makes sense. the assembly was really noisy, squeaky for so long. I finally put some WD 40 up there and after 5 years found the spot. It was great to have it be quiet. (it felt so cheap to have all that racket down there) Now, i guess this is why?

so, how many shifts for 91 race days, 1hour average each day. maybe more like 30 laps/day. 12 shifts/laps so, 360 shifts a day . so 3500 shifts later, just for the racing part, probably explains the wear! 40,000miles now too!

mk

AO

I think you must have been riding the clutch!

mark kibort

well 928 intl just sent out the new shaft and the needle bearings to replace that delrin plastic tube that was used on the clutch pedal. anyone know what that ID is supposed to be on the clutch pedal to fit the needle bearings?? im thinking that maybe porsche at the factory hogged out that hole to fit that white plastic tube and use that as the bearing, so the new needle bearings wont fit. (i hope this is not the case) How to the needle bearings fit in there anyway? do they have a flange like the white bushings?

ill know more when they arrive tomorrow.

MK

BC

l

They are pressed in I know that.