rear suspension bushings
01-06-2008, 11:04 AM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
I know, but $500/month is six grand a year. I spent that in less than a year on my old 928 and it still wasn't nice. And at that, I'm saving a lot because the items I've been working on (pads, lines, rebuild calipers, rear wiring harness, coupler adjustment, shifter, and now rear bushings) would have cost a lot more at a shop. I'm not complaining at all, this is why I bought it. I wanted something I could work on, drive and enjoy. Since I bought a car with the big issues done, I can spend my time and money on the little things and then on upgrades. 
01-06-2008, 01:55 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
mystery spacer
Ok this gets weirder. I pulled the rotor and shield in just a couple minutes, and then had the pin out in a few minutes more. Pretty easy and the good news is the pin is straight and true. But the bushings are intact and fine too. The movement is at the point where the cone washer seats on the hub carrier, not in the lower control arm bushings. I thought there was a bushing in the hub carrier, but apparently it's just torque and seating that cone washer that holds it solid.
It's pretty clear there's a gap between the control arm and the hub carrier, and it looks like I'm missing another large washer/spacer which would press down the cone washer - it's just hanging there now. The WSM doesn't show such a spacer at all, just the cone washer sitting between the hub carrier and the control arm. But dammit the driver's side HAS one and no gap, solid as a rock. Passenger side has none and a BIG gap. Pic1 - driver's side with spacer/washer. Pic2 - passenger side with a gap. You can see the cone washer in pic2 on the hub side, hanging at an angle. With the 22mm nut on and torqued to spec it still leaves the gap you see. I pulled the large flat washer off and it's a perfect fit and it sure looks like the driver's side used 3 of those washers while I only have 2 on the passenger side. What in the world?
It's pretty clear there's a gap between the control arm and the hub carrier, and it looks like I'm missing another large washer/spacer which would press down the cone washer - it's just hanging there now. The WSM doesn't show such a spacer at all, just the cone washer sitting between the hub carrier and the control arm. But dammit the driver's side HAS one and no gap, solid as a rock. Passenger side has none and a BIG gap. Pic1 - driver's side with spacer/washer. Pic2 - passenger side with a gap. You can see the cone washer in pic2 on the hub side, hanging at an angle. With the 22mm nut on and torqued to spec it still leaves the gap you see. I pulled the large flat washer off and it's a perfect fit and it sure looks like the driver's side used 3 of those washers while I only have 2 on the passenger side. What in the world?
01-06-2008, 10:56 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
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Mark,
When I worked on ours, I only remember 2 cone washers and 1 large flat washer. The 2 cones on the hub carrier and the one flat in between the lower shock mount and the control arm - no flat washer on the front side of the assembly (forward side of the hub carrier). The boneyard pictures from Russ also show two cone washers and one flat washer sitting on the pin - if you look closely and assuming all washers have been included. I don't remember seeing a gap as big as yours on our car either. I can get under there tomorrow and take a picture if it helps.
When I worked on ours, I only remember 2 cone washers and 1 large flat washer. The 2 cones on the hub carrier and the one flat in between the lower shock mount and the control arm - no flat washer on the front side of the assembly (forward side of the hub carrier). The boneyard pictures from Russ also show two cone washers and one flat washer sitting on the pin - if you look closely and assuming all washers have been included. I don't remember seeing a gap as big as yours on our car either. I can get under there tomorrow and take a picture if it helps.
01-07-2008, 01:30 AM
#21
Under the Lift
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As others have already said, the conicals fit in recesses in the sides of the hub carrier in the middle. There are only 3 flat washers, with the ones on each end being larger and thicker than the 3rd one next to the shock. As Dwayne indicated, there is no flat washer on the forward side of the hub carrier. So, your driver side is wrong even though it looks right to you.
Here's the way it should look. There can be some "freespace" in the assembly not filled snug with rubber bushing due to protruding metal centers in the bushings. You can see some in my image, both on the forward side of the hub carrier and between the shock mount flat washer and the control arm. The second image shows the gap at rear due to the protruding metal spacer. Unfortunately, I don't have a close-up shot of the front gap. Once the end nuts are torqued to 103 Ft-lbs, there is no play.
Here's the way it should look. There can be some "freespace" in the assembly not filled snug with rubber bushing due to protruding metal centers in the bushings. You can see some in my image, both on the forward side of the hub carrier and between the shock mount flat washer and the control arm. The second image shows the gap at rear due to the protruding metal spacer. Unfortunately, I don't have a close-up shot of the front gap. Once the end nuts are torqued to 103 Ft-lbs, there is no play.
Last edited by Bill Ball; 01-07-2008 at 02:06 AM.
01-07-2008, 02:31 AM
#22
Under the Lift
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OK, I just went out to the garage and grabbed this shot of the front gap from the inside view. The front conical washer sits a bit proud of the hub surface and is visible. That's all.
Last edited by Bill Ball; 01-07-2008 at 03:29 AM.
01-07-2008, 08:25 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Mark, if you need any of those washers you're welcome to stop by my shop in Lawrenceville and borrow them, I have a bunch of those conical and big washers and they're just sitting here.
01-07-2008, 09:12 AM
#24
Drifting
Thread Starter
That seals it, I'm definitely missing that washer. And it looks like the driver's side was installed incorrectly too, probably when the Eibach setup was installed. I can't believe it's been this way for that long, wow. You wouldn't believe the play in the hub carrier, and it's just amazing that the pin is in good shape - straight and no scoring. Luckily it's not that hard to correct and like MrMerlin said, it's a good chance to clean and grease the pins.
So why does my WSM not show that big flat washer? It shows the big ones on the ends and the conical washers, but that's it. Does anyone else's show it?
Mike that's a generous offer and I'll take you up on it, if nothing else but to see that monster engine you're building.
I'll pm my contact info, thanks!
So why does my WSM not show that big flat washer? It shows the big ones on the ends and the conical washers, but that's it. Does anyone else's show it?
Mike that's a generous offer and I'll take you up on it, if nothing else but to see that monster engine you're building.
I'll pm my contact info, thanks!
01-07-2008, 03:10 PM
#25
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01-07-2008, 11:31 PM
#27
Team Owner
Nice pictures Bill, I was wondering did you go out and remove a wheel to do this ?? If so,
WOW thats some effort...Once again Bill you ROCK....... Stan
WOW thats some effort...Once again Bill you ROCK....... Stan
01-08-2008, 01:22 AM
#28
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Nope. The last shot is from under the car. The car sits on a 4-post lift all the time. So, it only takes me 45 seconds and I can shoot anything accessible from underneath. The first two shots are from my own shock job several years ago.
09-20-2010, 07:25 PM
#30
Instructor
Just in case anyone searches and finds this thread, I had the same problem, loose rear hub, knackered bushes on trailing arm. I read this thread, and my approach (which worked quickly) is below for info:
This is how I got the bushes out and the new ones in, in 1 hour!
1) Buy a threaded rod and bolts from hardware store
2) Jack car and position axle stands.
3) Unbolt the the pin axle from the brake caliper end by locking the rear most nut with a new nut (which you'll use later on reassembly (oh I ordered new bushes, new washers, conical washers and nuts).
4) Pull out trailing arm axle pin toward rear of car
5) Lift hub up and support with jack handle with a cloth on the top (to prevent scratching shiny ali bits), to get clearance to work on bushings, the shock is relatively easy to position out of the way.
6) Get two large sockets that are similar in size to the bushes but small enough to go through the aperture when removing bushings in the trailing arm.
7) From the back push the threaded rod through the bushing, put the first socket on the rod followed by one of the old large washers (to keep in square), two nuts, spin them down enough to have a enough room to put the next large washer and socket on facing the front bush, now hold the nuts and spin the rod until you wind it out slightly of the front most bushing.
8) You have now replaced the normal axle with the threaded rod, with bushing, socket, old large wash, nut, nut, old large washer, socket, bushing in that order.
9) Wind the nuts outward using two ratchet spanners until you can't wind them any further (by hand). You have now built up enough compression to remove the bushings.
10) Heat the mountings with a blowtorch, blowing from the socket side around the edge just until it flames, blow it, quickly spray wd40 (spray oil) around the edge while hot, the oil then quickly frees the bushing (repeat if you didn't do it for long enough).
11) You'll notice the compression has subsided in the side you've just done, simply wind the nut out and remove the bush.
12) For the otherside (I did rear most first), simply keep winding the side just removed until the large washer hits the trailing arm, tighten again as tight as possible by hand, you then have sufficient compression again for the remaining side, repeat procedure to remove remaining bush.
13) Use the same threaded rod to install your new bushes, simply square up on each end and use the old large washers to wind them in with the rod. I put some rubber friendly grease on mine to wind them in easily.
14) Grease up and reassemble the axle as per the diagram shown earlier in the thread (with new washers). Sorted, and no need to remove caliper or anything other than pin assembly.
Oh one thing I will say is that you will burn a little paint off with this procedure (around the bushes), but no more probably than you'd chip off with another method, I gave the very small area of bubbled paint a quick sand and took the opportunity to give the arm a nice coat of matt black lacquer. If you're quick though (which I was on the second one, if is possible not to bubble the paint with shorter quick blasts of b/torch, I would let this worry you, fresh paints always a good thing, especially in the wet UK!)
Hope this help the next person with wobbly hub syndrome!
Danny
This is how I got the bushes out and the new ones in, in 1 hour!
1) Buy a threaded rod and bolts from hardware store
2) Jack car and position axle stands.
3) Unbolt the the pin axle from the brake caliper end by locking the rear most nut with a new nut (which you'll use later on reassembly (oh I ordered new bushes, new washers, conical washers and nuts).
4) Pull out trailing arm axle pin toward rear of car
5) Lift hub up and support with jack handle with a cloth on the top (to prevent scratching shiny ali bits), to get clearance to work on bushings, the shock is relatively easy to position out of the way.
6) Get two large sockets that are similar in size to the bushes but small enough to go through the aperture when removing bushings in the trailing arm.
7) From the back push the threaded rod through the bushing, put the first socket on the rod followed by one of the old large washers (to keep in square), two nuts, spin them down enough to have a enough room to put the next large washer and socket on facing the front bush, now hold the nuts and spin the rod until you wind it out slightly of the front most bushing.
8) You have now replaced the normal axle with the threaded rod, with bushing, socket, old large wash, nut, nut, old large washer, socket, bushing in that order.
9) Wind the nuts outward using two ratchet spanners until you can't wind them any further (by hand). You have now built up enough compression to remove the bushings.
10) Heat the mountings with a blowtorch, blowing from the socket side around the edge just until it flames, blow it, quickly spray wd40 (spray oil) around the edge while hot, the oil then quickly frees the bushing (repeat if you didn't do it for long enough).
11) You'll notice the compression has subsided in the side you've just done, simply wind the nut out and remove the bush.
12) For the otherside (I did rear most first), simply keep winding the side just removed until the large washer hits the trailing arm, tighten again as tight as possible by hand, you then have sufficient compression again for the remaining side, repeat procedure to remove remaining bush.
13) Use the same threaded rod to install your new bushes, simply square up on each end and use the old large washers to wind them in with the rod. I put some rubber friendly grease on mine to wind them in easily.
14) Grease up and reassemble the axle as per the diagram shown earlier in the thread (with new washers). Sorted, and no need to remove caliper or anything other than pin assembly.
Oh one thing I will say is that you will burn a little paint off with this procedure (around the bushes), but no more probably than you'd chip off with another method, I gave the very small area of bubbled paint a quick sand and took the opportunity to give the arm a nice coat of matt black lacquer. If you're quick though (which I was on the second one, if is possible not to bubble the paint with shorter quick blasts of b/torch, I would let this worry you, fresh paints always a good thing, especially in the wet UK!)
Hope this help the next person with wobbly hub syndrome!
Danny
Last edited by dph928; 09-20-2010 at 07:49 PM.
