The boards opinion of Honda.
02-10-2003, 12:02 PM
#16
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Abby-
I like the TL's too...in fact, if my girlfriend from Belgium ever immigrates-
-she won't leave her parents-
Then I'll buy her one.
And...if you really wish to smell testosterone [your post sure makes it seem like you do!], then I want to make a small wager with you. Find me a TL that is stock except for the exhaust [cat back...] and let me race it with my '85 Euro S2 [stock, but with a cat back Borla exhaust], and if it can outrun me in a quarter mile, I'll pay you $100.
Incidently, my best time at Bithlo Speedway was 13.8 @ 106...
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
I like the TL's too...in fact, if my girlfriend from Belgium ever immigrates-
-she won't leave her parents-
Then I'll buy her one.
And...if you really wish to smell testosterone [your post sure makes it seem like you do!], then I want to make a small wager with you. Find me a TL that is stock except for the exhaust [cat back...] and let me race it with my '85 Euro S2 [stock, but with a cat back Borla exhaust], and if it can outrun me in a quarter mile, I'll pay you $100.
Incidently, my best time at Bithlo Speedway was 13.8 @ 106...
Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed
02-10-2003, 12:06 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Well OK here goes,
<a href="http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/PrintArticle.asp?ArticleID=155" target="_blank">http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/PrintArticle.asp?ArticleID=155</a>
There is a road and track review of the Tl with a quarter mile time of 15.0 at 95mph.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jkomiak/" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/jkomiak/</a>
That is a page that collects dyno runs from various 928s. You will find a couple of Euros ranging from 220rwhp to 269rwhp.
<a href="http://www.aempower.com/pdf/results/21-419%202001%20Acura%20CL%20&%20TL%20Type-S%20CAS.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.aempower.com/pdf/results/21-419%202001%20Acura%20CL%20&%20TL%20Type-S%20C AS.pdf</a>
One Dyno of a TL
<a href="http://beta.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=34627" target="_blank">http://beta.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=34627</a>
Another quarter mile time for the TL.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004226#000007" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14 ;t=004226#000007</a>
That is a post to this forum. You will find Norm ran a 13.8 at 106mph in an 85 Euro.
The published times from Porsche for the Euros don't make sense. The Euro weighs less, has more HP, and better gears than the US car of the same year, but is slower in the 1/4 mile. Go figure. As for my personaly experience. My friend has a Cobra Mustang that turns 13.7-9s consistantly. When we go at it, it is always a dead heat.
<a href="http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/PrintArticle.asp?ArticleID=155" target="_blank">http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/PrintArticle.asp?ArticleID=155</a>
There is a road and track review of the Tl with a quarter mile time of 15.0 at 95mph.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jkomiak/" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/jkomiak/</a>
That is a page that collects dyno runs from various 928s. You will find a couple of Euros ranging from 220rwhp to 269rwhp.
<a href="http://www.aempower.com/pdf/results/21-419%202001%20Acura%20CL%20&%20TL%20Type-S%20CAS.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.aempower.com/pdf/results/21-419%202001%20Acura%20CL%20&%20TL%20Type-S%20C AS.pdf</a>
One Dyno of a TL
<a href="http://beta.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=34627" target="_blank">http://beta.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=34627</a>
Another quarter mile time for the TL.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004226#000007" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14 ;t=004226#000007</a>
That is a post to this forum. You will find Norm ran a 13.8 at 106mph in an 85 Euro.
The published times from Porsche for the Euros don't make sense. The Euro weighs less, has more HP, and better gears than the US car of the same year, but is slower in the 1/4 mile. Go figure. As for my personaly experience. My friend has a Cobra Mustang that turns 13.7-9s consistantly. When we go at it, it is always a dead heat.
02-10-2003, 12:24 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
One more thing. I have a Volvo T-5R wagon with about 260hp. Now I drive that and my S2 back to back in the summer and I can gaurantee you the 928 will take the Volvo. I also have the time slip to prove the Volvo runs a 14.8 at 94mph. Not a slow family truckster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
If you would like some Dynojet data runs form an 80 Euro S and an 83 Euro S I would be happy to email more information.
For a little more enlightenment, I was in an Euro this summer with (not known at the time) a dead cylinder. That thing felt strong and idled perfect. It still dynoed at 225rwhp. So the car can be down a cylinder and still feel fast. Until a complete compression check was done the problem was not found. If I were your friend I would get a new mechanic and do a complete compression check, sniffer test, and make sure it has the correct computer for that year.
If you would like some Dynojet data runs form an 80 Euro S and an 83 Euro S I would be happy to email more information.
For a little more enlightenment, I was in an Euro this summer with (not known at the time) a dead cylinder. That thing felt strong and idled perfect. It still dynoed at 225rwhp. So the car can be down a cylinder and still feel fast. Until a complete compression check was done the problem was not found. If I were your friend I would get a new mechanic and do a complete compression check, sniffer test, and make sure it has the correct computer for that year.
02-10-2003, 04:43 PM
#19
In Your Face, Ace
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Quaz:
There is a road and track review of the Tl with a quarter mile time of 15.0 at 95mph.
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That time is still faster than published Euro 928 times, so what is your point? Please understand this, there is nothing wrong with my friends Euro. The TLS is quicker.PERIOD
Normy,
Would love to have raced, I could always use an extra $100.(TESTOSTERONE RULES) However, my wife wanted an SUV since we now have a kid and tons of stuff to haul around, so I sold it and got her a '03 Tahoe Z71. How is your car nearly 2 seconds faster than most other Euro's?
I'm really not trying to start a war here guys <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
I am simply making the point that Honda has some vehicles that are comparable and sometimes better than a 928 in staraight line performance. I hear all about those 330hp Euro C5 killaz and have yet to see one able to do it.... I have seen published times as low as 14.2 for a TL-Stype in non bias publications.
Here is another link with performance data that shows times that are still quicker than published times for 928 Euro. I even ran S4's and gave them all they wanted.
<a href="http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?id1=194&id2=0" target="_blank">http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?id1=194&id2=0</a>
The TLS has a controlled top speed of about 142mph. I am sure the 928 would dominate once the speeds approached 140mph. In all of our runs we shut down around 135mph but the Type S had car lenghths on the Euro.
It "is" what it "is"
Rather than being so defensive, I would be proud that a car 19 years older gave a high tech sport sedan a close run.
There is a road and track review of the Tl with a quarter mile time of 15.0 at 95mph.
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That time is still faster than published Euro 928 times, so what is your point? Please understand this, there is nothing wrong with my friends Euro. The TLS is quicker.PERIOD
Normy,
Would love to have raced, I could always use an extra $100.(TESTOSTERONE RULES) However, my wife wanted an SUV since we now have a kid and tons of stuff to haul around, so I sold it and got her a '03 Tahoe Z71. How is your car nearly 2 seconds faster than most other Euro's?
I'm really not trying to start a war here guys <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
I am simply making the point that Honda has some vehicles that are comparable and sometimes better than a 928 in staraight line performance. I hear all about those 330hp Euro C5 killaz and have yet to see one able to do it.... I have seen published times as low as 14.2 for a TL-Stype in non bias publications.
Here is another link with performance data that shows times that are still quicker than published times for 928 Euro. I even ran S4's and gave them all they wanted.
<a href="http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?id1=194&id2=0" target="_blank">http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?id1=194&id2=0</a>
The TLS has a controlled top speed of about 142mph. I am sure the 928 would dominate once the speeds approached 140mph. In all of our runs we shut down around 135mph but the Type S had car lenghths on the Euro.
It "is" what it "is"
Rather than being so defensive, I would be proud that a car 19 years older gave a high tech sport sedan a close run.
02-10-2003, 06:40 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Abby,
I am just trying to prove a simple point of physics here. This may be beyond you, but that is fine. You may have the magic Acura with that special magic option which alows it to defy physics. I just hope on my next car I can find that on the order form. Maybe you just need to ask that special magic salesmen.
However, every time I purchased vehicles physics did apply and I have always been disapointed when I did not believe it. {Acceleration=Force/Mass} When you can get that to no longer apply come find me and we can make millions....no billions.
Muahhahahaha!!!!!!!!
I am just trying to prove a simple point of physics here. This may be beyond you, but that is fine. You may have the magic Acura with that special magic option which alows it to defy physics. I just hope on my next car I can find that on the order form. Maybe you just need to ask that special magic salesmen.
However, every time I purchased vehicles physics did apply and I have always been disapointed when I did not believe it. {Acceleration=Force/Mass} When you can get that to no longer apply come find me and we can make millions....no billions.
Muahhahahaha!!!!!!!!
02-11-2003, 10:27 AM
#21
In Your Face, Ace
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Rennlist Member
Imagine that??????????
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004686" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004686</a>
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004686" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=004686</a>
02-11-2003, 10:44 AM
#22
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Two words Quaz, gear ratio. Abby and I played around when I had my S4 in New Orleans and maybe mine's not one of these super 928's either but the TL is fast (by these standards). I've beat 996's, 540's and other 928's and I have no problem believing that many 928's could not deal with that car. Maybe it is a magic TL, just like these magic 928's.
Peace
Peace
02-11-2003, 11:50 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
I am through arguing. I have proven my point. BTW Carlos, have you ever checked the gear ratios of the Euros. You may be surprised at what you find and don't just look at the final drive (not that it's bad). Not until the 89 GT were the gears that favorable for a 928 in the US.
02-11-2003, 11:56 AM
#24
In Your Face, Ace
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Quaz:
<strong>I am through arguing. I have proven my point. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Do you mean through pissing? As far as the 928Euro vs TL-S you've proven nothing.
<strong>I am through arguing. I have proven my point. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Do you mean through pissing? As far as the 928Euro vs TL-S you've proven nothing.
02-11-2003, 01:32 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Abby, I must say. Being an owner of a 84S2 with MSDS Headers, no smog pump and minus an manual fan. I find it very hard to beleive that an Acura TL will beat a S2. A few weeks back, I took on a C5 vette during a high speed roll on race. Long Story short - I beat the C5. Factory Published 1/4 miles for the Euro do not apply for you see, the times most commonly viewed for the Euro are in fact US times. (See 928 Specialist Tech Info page) - This is what Ive seen most of.
An S2 has 310 - (330hp rep) stock, which in turn gives it 265rwhp @ 310hp crank. At 265 rwhp, a shark weighing 3.3k will turn a 13 second 1/4 mile. End of story?.
Sorry to Burst the TL bubble, but hey, they are nice cars - just not faster than a sound S2 and a good driver (Like me
) .
An S2 has 310 - (330hp rep) stock, which in turn gives it 265rwhp @ 310hp crank. At 265 rwhp, a shark weighing 3.3k will turn a 13 second 1/4 mile. End of story?.
Sorry to Burst the TL bubble, but hey, they are nice cars - just not faster than a sound S2 and a good driver (Like me
) .
02-11-2003, 02:05 PM
#26
In Your Face, Ace
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To ALL DEFENDERS OF THE 928.
I have ran more than one 928 with the TLS and either won or was on their 1/4 panel. I no longer have the car.
I simply (for performance comparison) gave you actual runs.
It's really no Big Deal... I could care less at this point what any of you think.
This thread is about your opinion/experience of Hondas, I have stated mine and you guys MUST have a problem with it.
3 simple words.
GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have ran more than one 928 with the TLS and either won or was on their 1/4 panel. I no longer have the car.
I simply (for performance comparison) gave you actual runs.
It's really no Big Deal... I could care less at this point what any of you think.
This thread is about your opinion/experience of Hondas, I have stated mine and you guys MUST have a problem with it.
3 simple words.
GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-11-2003, 05:27 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Abby Short:
<strong>To ALL DEFENDERS OF THE 928.
I have ran more than one 928 with the TLS and either won or was on their 1/4 panel. I no longer have the car.
I simply (for performance comparison) gave you actual runs.
It's really no Big Deal... I could care less at this point what any of you think.
This thread is about your opinion/experience of Hondas, I have stated mine and you guys MUST have a problem with it.
3 simple words.
GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Wow - we S2 owners have no problem with rice, we often have it with dinner!. Get over what?!!!!
Dude, relax. No one is arguing against you. BTW - do you have any picks of you Supercharged WideBody?. The concept sounds pretty aggressive and I'm sure a few others would be interested in hearing about it.
Thanks
<strong>To ALL DEFENDERS OF THE 928.
I have ran more than one 928 with the TLS and either won or was on their 1/4 panel. I no longer have the car.
I simply (for performance comparison) gave you actual runs.
It's really no Big Deal... I could care less at this point what any of you think.
This thread is about your opinion/experience of Hondas, I have stated mine and you guys MUST have a problem with it.
3 simple words.
GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Wow - we S2 owners have no problem with rice, we often have it with dinner!. Get over what?!!!!
Dude, relax. No one is arguing against you. BTW - do you have any picks of you Supercharged WideBody?. The concept sounds pretty aggressive and I'm sure a few others would be interested in hearing about it.
Thanks
02-11-2003, 07:39 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
The only Vtec powered cars to hold a candle to an S4 or a euro 80-86 (ie 300-310hp) will be a type R integra. any other version of the Vtec will get killed in a drag, or road race, and not because of handling. as was mentioned, its really all about hp to weight. gearing is not a factor. in fact, the us gears could be an advantage as the stock US 84 has a redline in 3rd of right around a 100mph and the S4 is around 111mph. right around the speed of a good mid 12-13 sec 1/4mile.
on the race track, Ive seen them all, infact more than most as Ive raced with NASA and we have EVERY kind of car out there. Ill probably have video of any car you want to see on the track over a 24 Video CD selection of pure racing or DEing. Give me a euro 928, and it will be meat in every way against some wifes Acura non integra!
You want proof, do a 1/4 mile, or do a 60 to 100 mph sprint. if it doesnt run 14 in the quarter and 7 seconds 60-100mph, then it cant hang. and trust me. (and the others, it cant.)
the euro that was racing may have been "sick" if it lost or was only a door ahead!!
MK
on the race track, Ive seen them all, infact more than most as Ive raced with NASA and we have EVERY kind of car out there. Ill probably have video of any car you want to see on the track over a 24 Video CD selection of pure racing or DEing. Give me a euro 928, and it will be meat in every way against some wifes Acura non integra!
You want proof, do a 1/4 mile, or do a 60 to 100 mph sprint. if it doesnt run 14 in the quarter and 7 seconds 60-100mph, then it cant hang. and trust me. (and the others, it cant.)
the euro that was racing may have been "sick" if it lost or was only a door ahead!!
MK
02-11-2003, 08:27 PM
#30
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Mark: I was at the race it did happen. The euro is very well maintained car. The passenger in the euro is a top notch porsche tech at the local porsche dealer. Abby's wifes acura busted that a** on the 928 euro in every way but at a PCA track event.
Curious George
Curious George