View Poll Results: Which next fun car?
S4+ track shark
19
24.36%
5 speed GTS
32
41.03%
C6 Vette
27
34.62%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll
Big $$$ ??? GTS, track shark or new Vette?
11-18-2007, 01:22 AM
#31
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There is a video on You Tube regarding a guys day at the track in a new Z06...showing his 1/4 mile times on drag radials with long tubed headers at 10.85...that is flying...with navigation...*L*
11-18-2007, 01:25 AM
#32
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As long as you have such arbitrary money to play with, why not be unique and set up a late-80's 928 for the track instead of being one of a dozen-odd vette participants?
11-18-2007, 02:27 AM
#35
Drifting
Ed, not to belabor the point...I was talking about track cars not street cars. You are better off with a balanced car than an ***-heavy one. Having a well balanced car with 275 front tires can apply considerably more braking force at the end of the straight than an ***-heavy car with even 245's on front which is extremely wide for most 911's. I have set up early 911's with Big Reds and 245's and they have to really learn how to use a proportioning valve and the pedal to get good, consistant hard braking and it still will not have the potential braking ability of the same brakes with wider tires and better weight distribution.
The cornering force capability is considerably higher with 275 fronts and 315 rears than with 225 fronts and 285 rears...the overall contact patch is much greater.
As far as design, have you ever seen any true track designed cars with a rear engine design? Not converted street cars...Mid engine with the mass located inside the wheelbase is the preferred design with front engine/rear transmission being second. High polar rotation is not a desireable trait in a road course car but can really be beneficial in an autocross car. Front engine and rear transmission with the engine and trans being outside the wheelbase, while being a bad idea would even be preferred to the 911 design of one end being heavy. The 928's are very close to being inside the wheelbase with 1/3rd the engine being in front of the front end and just the diff being outside the rear end. Once again I am not putting down 911's just their design for dedicated track cars. I am not saying that they cannot be made fast, I have made them fast. I am saying that the physical design is the most inefficient for proper track use. I grew up racing Formula Vee's and Formula Atlantic's. The difference between the engine being behind the rear axle and the engine being in front of the rear axle is considerable.
As far as the 911 idiots I was referring to, most of the uninformed public seems to think that all they have to do to be fast on a track is get a 911. The learning curve is sharper and when they push the envelope without the required skillset, who are they going to take out with them? DE's are not what I was referring to, they are a very good step to gaining the required skillset but door to door is a totally different experience.
And now back to your regular programming...maybe we should start another 911 vs. 928 post. (Please NO!)
The cornering force capability is considerably higher with 275 fronts and 315 rears than with 225 fronts and 285 rears...the overall contact patch is much greater.
As far as design, have you ever seen any true track designed cars with a rear engine design? Not converted street cars...Mid engine with the mass located inside the wheelbase is the preferred design with front engine/rear transmission being second. High polar rotation is not a desireable trait in a road course car but can really be beneficial in an autocross car. Front engine and rear transmission with the engine and trans being outside the wheelbase, while being a bad idea would even be preferred to the 911 design of one end being heavy. The 928's are very close to being inside the wheelbase with 1/3rd the engine being in front of the front end and just the diff being outside the rear end. Once again I am not putting down 911's just their design for dedicated track cars. I am not saying that they cannot be made fast, I have made them fast. I am saying that the physical design is the most inefficient for proper track use. I grew up racing Formula Vee's and Formula Atlantic's. The difference between the engine being behind the rear axle and the engine being in front of the rear axle is considerable.
As far as the 911 idiots I was referring to, most of the uninformed public seems to think that all they have to do to be fast on a track is get a 911. The learning curve is sharper and when they push the envelope without the required skillset, who are they going to take out with them? DE's are not what I was referring to, they are a very good step to gaining the required skillset but door to door is a totally different experience.
And now back to your regular programming...maybe we should start another 911 vs. 928 post. (Please NO!)
11-18-2007, 02:51 AM
#36
Instructor
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For what its worth,I own a supercharged 98 ss convert camaro and a 89 gt with a murph stage 3 gts drivetrain. I will be the first to admit that I am a chevy and porsche nut as well as a horsepower junkie.
I will be the first to admit that my ss is an apples and oranges comparison to a new c6 but they do share a lot of the dna.
In my opion the porsche is way overbuilt. It seams to handle the added horsepower and strain that comes with it with as if it was built for 500 + horsepower.With the ss ,I have put in 4 clutches, 3 rear ends,and 1 windshild that broke when I lauched it on slicks.
The porsche has had no failures to date.
In the ss you feel as if you are sitting ON an uncontrollable rocket that is *** and elbows crazy and will maintain a john force type burnout through the top of 4th gear.It is adolesent fun to the nineth degree and always makes me smile as if you had just stolen all the answers to next mornings calc exam.
The gt is just as fast but it puts the power down after 2nd gear with no crazy antics and most importantly you feel as though you are PART of the car ,not just along for the amusment park ride.You feel the breeding in the machine and you feel that it would not break .It makes me feel like a hero not a outlaw.
Both make me happy . For what its worh, this are my 02 cents...
I will be the first to admit that my ss is an apples and oranges comparison to a new c6 but they do share a lot of the dna.
In my opion the porsche is way overbuilt. It seams to handle the added horsepower and strain that comes with it with as if it was built for 500 + horsepower.With the ss ,I have put in 4 clutches, 3 rear ends,and 1 windshild that broke when I lauched it on slicks.
The porsche has had no failures to date.
In the ss you feel as if you are sitting ON an uncontrollable rocket that is *** and elbows crazy and will maintain a john force type burnout through the top of 4th gear.It is adolesent fun to the nineth degree and always makes me smile as if you had just stolen all the answers to next mornings calc exam.
The gt is just as fast but it puts the power down after 2nd gear with no crazy antics and most importantly you feel as though you are PART of the car ,not just along for the amusment park ride.You feel the breeding in the machine and you feel that it would not break .It makes me feel like a hero not a outlaw.
Both make me happy . For what its worh, this are my 02 cents...
11-18-2007, 10:42 AM
#40
Instructor
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Macon GA
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How is it that we all got here? That's right, an innate desire to possess one of THE most unique automobiles ever produced. Is a Corvette a more practical daily tool for the job? Yes. Will it run circles around the average 928? Yes. Will you have to turn a wrench on the Corvette? No. Will electrical gremlins make you lose religion, drink WAY more Laphroaig single malt (personal preference) than you should while turning the aforementioned wrench? Yes. Will innumerable people from all walks of life comment on what a beautiful car the Corvette is? Yes.
Who needs practical?
There's ALWAYS a faster car.
I like turning wrenches.
Clean your grounds.
Wash up after turning a wrench. I've always heard that cleanliness is next to Godliness, so I keep plenty of Goop next to my wrenches.
I really, really, like single malt Scotch.
I'll settle for the occasional non-believer that I catch staring at the gas pump, wondering what it is, noting the timeless curves, the lack of similarity to anything else on the American highway, the primal growl when it cranks over. They ask. I tell. It's wonderful.
The Corvette is fabulous indeed, but I'll opt for a community where the owners KNOW their cars. Truly know them.
Passionate? Again, yes. Maybe it's the single malt beginning to speak.
I am turning a wrench though. Goop handy.
Who needs practical?
There's ALWAYS a faster car.
I like turning wrenches.
Clean your grounds.
Wash up after turning a wrench. I've always heard that cleanliness is next to Godliness, so I keep plenty of Goop next to my wrenches.
I really, really, like single malt Scotch.
I'll settle for the occasional non-believer that I catch staring at the gas pump, wondering what it is, noting the timeless curves, the lack of similarity to anything else on the American highway, the primal growl when it cranks over. They ask. I tell. It's wonderful.
The Corvette is fabulous indeed, but I'll opt for a community where the owners KNOW their cars. Truly know them.
Passionate? Again, yes. Maybe it's the single malt beginning to speak.
I am turning a wrench though. Goop handy.
11-18-2007, 12:49 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Brian:Todays S.F. Chronicle classifieds lists a 94' 928 GTS 5-sp. 42.5mi.45.5 K $ just to let you know.
Gerry
Gerry
11-18-2007, 12:49 PM
#42
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
11-19-2007, 12:31 AM
#44
Race Director
Thread Starter
WOW
This got much bigger than I thought.............
In an ideal world I'd have one of each.....but the wife would kill me....
I really don't want to sell the 88.....but if I got a GTS, I'd still want a 5 speed track shark to beat on....so that would give me 3 928's and an upset wife...
Or I keep sharky...buy a vette...either a Z06 or C6 Z51 as a daily driver and occasional track beater while I learn to drive during DE's...... I figure it will take me a couple years of DE's to get to a level where I could consider racing with Kibort and company!
But keeping my perfectly good (but boring) daily driver I have now, does give me the $$$ freedom to start building a track shark or start saving for that GTS...... Too many decisions.... I guess the bottom line is I want to start doing more DE style events, but I don't want to beat on sharky (plus its an auto)....the other bummer is I had the perfect 928 lined up to do it, but had to let it slip away.....
Oh well....off to Thunderhill Dec 7th in Sharky to have some fun!
This got much bigger than I thought.............
In an ideal world I'd have one of each.....but the wife would kill me....
I really don't want to sell the 88.....but if I got a GTS, I'd still want a 5 speed track shark to beat on....so that would give me 3 928's and an upset wife...
Or I keep sharky...buy a vette...either a Z06 or C6 Z51 as a daily driver and occasional track beater while I learn to drive during DE's...... I figure it will take me a couple years of DE's to get to a level where I could consider racing with Kibort and company!
But keeping my perfectly good (but boring) daily driver I have now, does give me the $$$ freedom to start building a track shark or start saving for that GTS...... Too many decisions.... I guess the bottom line is I want to start doing more DE style events, but I don't want to beat on sharky (plus its an auto)....the other bummer is I had the perfect 928 lined up to do it, but had to let it slip away.....
Oh well....off to Thunderhill Dec 7th in Sharky to have some fun!
11-19-2007, 12:40 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
As far as design, have you ever seen any true track designed cars with a rear engine design? Not converted street cars...Mid engine with the mass located inside the wheelbase is the preferred design with front engine/rear transmission being second. High polar rotation is not a desireable trait in a road course car but can really be beneficial in an autocross car. Front engine and rear transmission with the engine and trans being outside the wheelbase, while being a bad idea would even be preferred to the 911 design of one end being heavy.
That's with my "lead" 70lb roll bar, 3/4 tanks and streetable bumpers. Yes, there's plenty more to be shed, but I keep some semblance of streetability.