BC

I drove through stockton Ice, this week. I had to go to Sacto for some meetings/seminars stuff, and took the S2000. It was the worst drive of my life, hard pounding, uncomfortable and loud. There is something to be said about comfort AND speed, and I think the new Vettes have that, and they come with warantees. The 928s (of any year) can be MADE reliable. But they sure as hell don't come that way in 2007. And to get 436hp, 6speed auto or manual, and as you say, bluetooth, XM, Nav, etc, you would have to spend quite a bit more than the price of a nearly new 08 Vette.

I will always have a 928, but I will also probably have get a vette.

BC

Maybe with an LS2 in it.

Charley B

OK, here is the only way to finally have happiness grasshopper.


Purchase a 5 speed GTS, sell Sharky, buy a 5spd track car.

Ed Hughes

All I can say is 40+ years of evidence substantiates the claim.

BC

40+ years of engineering thier way out of a marketing decision to put the engine behind the rear axle (aka ***-dragger) so as to make room for rear seats for the American market. Mmhmmm.

Ed Hughes

Puhlease. Here we go again. Here's the 928 crowd, who often claims they are misunderstood and oft-maligned by the "mainstream" Porsche community. And then, when it comes down to it, have no (or virtually none, and think the 928 is withthout flaw) respect for the 911. The old, "putting good money after bad" arguement just doesn't pan out, considering the 911's long and illustrious record in the world motorsports arena for an awfully long time. Name another fundamental design that has endured as long.

Are they harder to drive? Absolutely, but that's what gives a 911 owner, that can drive, an even greater sense of accomplishment. Not everyone can handle a 911 at speed. That's fine with me. There are 2 kinds of drivers: those that can drive 911's, and those that can't. Plain and simple.

I've got the pleasure of owning two great examples of each model. And, I've had the opportunity to put the ol' shark thru its paces (reference the reporting of the recent 3rd Coast Gathering) at the track a few times. But truthfully, a 3500+lb car, even though it's a Porsche, still feels like a 3500+lb car. My slimmed down 911 at 2600 lbs, with similar power/weight ratio, and identical brakes to my 928 is a lot more fun to sling around in anger. Did I mention it's also 12 or more inches wider?

If, however, I'm driving to SITM 1300 miles each way, and want to cruise for hours in excess of 120mph, the choice is also clear.

Can't we all get along? Porsches are unique amongst other brands in that they are almost indestructible, are better out of the box than anything else, and are plain awesome. Each model they build excells at its given task. But, although some have had success on the track in 928's, the 911 fulfills this mission much better, with less mods.

My main point here is that there are alternatives to Corvettes. I'd not turn one down, if given to me, but I'd not go out and buy one, given the fact that they just aren't as robust or immune to the ravages of time as a Porsche. Yes, I've read countless articles about the value of the latest models, and all of their virtues, but if I wanted to go out and spend $60K or thereabouts on a toy, I'd pop for another $20K and get a used GT3. It'd pay for itself in lower maintenance and the lack of prep $ needed to make it a track beast.

88porsche928

i love 928s but I would go with th vette
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-corvette.html
slap on a pro chargers supercharger and you will be invincible

Mako 928

Ed
I agree W/ you 911's are a great car and have a fantastic history but I think you took a left turn given that 911s were not on the list.

BC

I haven't even read what you said yet, but remember I never mentioned the 928 being the end all be all, nor even the vette, but they have the engine in the second best place behind "the middle" and ahead of "Dragging begind the rear wheels" - and the vette even pushes more performance by making sure its lump is behind the front axle.

largecar379

Having just visited Rob's (villa @ the racetrack) neighbor while at 3rd Coast, I can only wonder what you're really after with these choices......?

1. I would not track a GTS due to it's limited availability (read: RARE) and high initial cost. (What happens IF you crash it? Or pop the motor? ---you can't find those on every door step)

2. I would pick an OB or (not so good shape) S4 for track use.

3. the last new Z-06 price tag puts it way above any thing I would put on the track (read: strip it for track use) due to it's high as hell price and then.....why would you track a perfectly good Corvette?

4. Rob's neighbor has a Viper GTS w/supercharger and a few mod's. 500 hp to start with, brutally fast on a road course, and still can deal with a Z-06 any day. (But again---we are talking about big $$$$)

Again, I think the big question to be answered is:

Is this going to be a track only car..... or just something to play with on the occasional DE days while you harass the tuner crowd during the week?

It's your money.......and my uneducated opinions from what little I read.

Good luck!!!

--Russ

Ketchmi

Having the ability to drive almost every varient of track/street Porsche daily I have to say that in some cases a 911 is superior than a similar 928 but not many. I am building a 2400# track 928 that will have "only" 300rwhp and intend to have my way with as many 911's as I can. It is indeed harder to drive a 911 fast and not many can do so. This means that you will have a larger quantity of 911 track idiots that think they are fast without knowing how to drive well enough to keep from taking you out of competition. 911's have the ability to rotate very well into corners with a knowing driver or loop without...

This being said, I have been around Miller Motorsport Park with a very good 911 driver in an older, mostly stock SC and he was stuck like glue to a few new Lotus's (or Lotusi?). They could not get away him on the straights or corners and his car was worth less than 20% of what they paid. On the other hand, if I couldn't leave them in the dust with the lightweight 79' I would leave the track, sell the car and take up knitting.

Another downfall with 911 design is that to properly balance it for track use, you have front tires considerably smaller than the rears. Contact patch does matter and with a car that has a close front/rear weight bias you can run similar tires front and rear, wide. What happens when you do this on a 911? The larger front tires you can run, the more brakes you can have and use on the front. Narrow tires and big brakes are not a good combination.

I hate to rehash the 911 vs. 928 stories but the 928 is just simply a better design for racing. The fact that it was not raced by the factory does not mean that it is not a superior setup, the 911 was and still is the "favorite child" of Porsche. The Cayman has the potential to outperform the 911 with ease but is held back by corporate rules. Mid engine is a much better design than rear engine and that is a simple fact. 911's can be made fast, no denying that fact but a better design does not need as much work to do the same task.

Different style Porsche's are still Porsche's, made by the same factories and engineers. They all have their strong points as well as weak points. Dealing with the customers I have, the classic 911 owner thinks that they have the fastest car on the track. When a 928 drives around them they just think it's an abnormality and it doesn't change their thinking at all. This doesn't bother me, the less people that know about 928's, the more for me. I have converted more than a few 911 owners to 928 owners with only one drive. They simply were not in the right car for what they wanted and when they actually got a ride in a 928 outside of their peer group they find that 928's are simply a better design. They were the most advanced, fastest and sadly, most expensive Porsche while they were being sold.

I have one customer with an 86' 930 with some mods, a grey haired old man that drives well enough to make most of his passenger's white haired after only one trip. He bought an 84' 928 auto from us for his wife and found that he could actually take high speed corners faster with smaller, harder tires and without all the drama that his 930 gave him. It was much more relaxed while being faster and that is only an 84' auto...he thought it was slower until he started comparing speeds and couldn't believe it himself. The 930 just seemed so much faster because it required so much more attention to keep it on the edge. More fun? Quite possibily yes. Faster? No.

As far as the poll, I would get the GTS 5-speed. They are getting fewer and fewer and no more are being made. If you really start playing on the track you will find that it is addictive and your 88' will be converted more and more to track use. Sell it and do a dedicated track car. Get a Vette for daily use but be careful of the diff, they seem to be failing at an advanced rate. A cheap dedicated track shark will be much faster than your dual purpose 88' and you won't feel guilty about the hard use. Use the GTS sparingly knowing that you have one of the best and that it's not going down in value, drive the Vette until it gets too noisy, loose and unreliable then buy another.

My .02c worth...I'm doing the above without the Vette. I just don't like them.

Ed Hughes

I know, I was making a suggestion that Brian strongly consider what I think is an obvious/viable option, considering the fact that track work figures into his mission statement.

Ed Hughes

Well we agree on the vette issue.

The last time I looked, the front tire size on my 928 is smaller than the rear per Porsche's recommendation, so I'm not sure the point there. The last thing I'll say is that one of my first points was that a 911 takes relatively little prep to make it a worthy track car. To get down to 2400lbs on even an early 928 takes a bit of work. The 928 may be faster in some parts of some tracks, but we can't simply make broad statements that the 928 is a better design and or track car. I've seem a lot of 911 drivers at DE's the last few years learn to drive their 911's and drive them well-I don't see many "911 idiots" out there. We've all spun them at some time, but it's part of the learning curve.

pmooradian

You know how I feel IceMan.

My '83 Euro 5 spd was way more fun on the track than my GTS, which felt like an overstuffed pig. GREAT car on the highway, but not exactly a track beast, especially with street tires. My C6 Z06 is light years ahead of my '83 Euro or the GTS. A LOT more capability than this driver can take advantage of. As far as 911s go, my 993 C4 is fun, but for sale.

Meet me at Thunder Hill on Dec 7. You don't need to strip down a Z06 to turn it into a track monster. Drive it there, drive the hell out of it while you're there. Drive it home while getting 27 mpg. Easy. I felt like I didn't even stress the car last trip to Thunder Hill a few weeks ago. If you don't want to pay the premium for a new Z06, look for a used one or get a regular C6 with the Z51 performance package. You can do like a friend of mine and buy a run of the mill C6, add cams, chip, and exhaust. He now runs 11.5 1/4 mile blasts at Sacramento Raceway.

Maybe its NorCal, but I have never gotten any attention in any 928 around here (not that I care). I always gets comments, thumbs up, waves when I'm in the Vette. I'm still a big fan of the 928, but cars have come a long way in the past 20 years.

Charley B

heh heh heh, He said an '84 auto is faster than a mod'd 930.